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Post By mark manley
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17 Aug 2022
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Roundabout rules in Germany
I was wondering if any Germans or others familiar with German motoring rules could clarify what they are regarding roundabouts? Last week I was nearly knocked off my motorcycle on a local roundabout here in the UK by a German motorist who did not slowdown or look before entering the roundabout that I was already on forcing me to brake hard and take avoiding action, I assumed it was because they have different rules and had not bothered to find out what they are in the UK. Yesterday I was following another German motorist onto the same roundabout and they did the same to another motorist, this time a car causing them to do the same, was this just bad driving or not knowing the rules, which is another type of bad driving.
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17 Aug 2022
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Pretty sure it's because they are used to looking left, not right, when approaching a roundabout.  Almost ate asphalt a couple times on a rental bike in NZ like that!
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17 Aug 2022
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Nearly got caught out like that in Almaty, where the rules (if there are any?) allow drivers to enter the roundabout without giving way. Naturally the entering traffic then blocks the exits so the entire roundabout clogs up. Fortunately, it seemed to be the only roundabout in the city!
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17 Aug 2022
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Mark, I'm sure that guy was so busy concentrating to drive on the correct side of the road that he oversaw the yield sign. In Germany the rules are that the vehicle inside the roundabout has right of way and the vehicle entering has to yield.
Good for you that you survived 
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18 Aug 2022
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My understanding is that there is an almost universal rule in Western & Central Europe that vehicles entering the roundabout must give way to vehicles that are already in the roundabout.
There are some rare exceptions to this in France, where a special sign is used to warn drivers that traffic entering the roundabout has right of way. See this writeup about this at the UK RAC website: Lesser-known French road rules you’ll need to follow on your trip.
I'm going to guess that the German driver who cut you off in the UK was probably used to looking in the opposite direction (to the left, rather than to the right) to check and see if there was oncoming traffic already in the roundabout. There is also the possibility that if traffic was backed up both within the roundabout and at the approaches to the roundabout, the German driver was following the "zipper merge" protocol that is common in Germany.
Michael
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18 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Nearly got caught out like that in Almaty, where the rules (if there are any?) allow drivers to enter the roundabout without giving way. Naturally the entering traffic then blocks the exits so the entire roundabout clogs up. Fortunately, it seemed to be the only roundabout in the city!
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I guess not everyone got the memo. About a year ago the rules in KZ changed from old soviet type where runabouts were treated like intersection (main/secondary road, turning traffic yield unless circular blue sign oisted) where in some situations traffic entering runabout had priority to western style where traffic on the circle has priority.
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18 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean
There is also the possibility that if traffic was backed up both within the roundabout and at the approaches to the roundabout, the German driver was following the "zipper merge" protocol that is common in Germany.
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Thanks to everyone for your replies, there was no traffic backed up on either occasion, they were busy but flowing smoothly and had it only happened the once I would of just thought inattentive driver but twice within a few days and this sounds like a possibility.
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18 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean
I'm going to guess that the German driver who cut you off in the UK was probably used to looking in the opposite direction (to the left, rather than to the right) to check and see if there was oncoming traffic already in the roundabout. There is also the possibility that if traffic was backed up both within the roundabout and at the approaches to the roundabout, the German driver was following the "zipper merge" protocol that is common in Germany.
Michael
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As a german driving first time in London 35yrs ago I organized a pretty nice chaos on the streets. Switching my brain from german legal right side to drive on the left side overwelmed me at first. Also I was impressed by the courtesy and coolness of british drivers when I used a oneway street from the wrong side...
So I think that guy from the roundabout had maybe similar problems...
In Germany roundabout rules are shown by EU right way signs. Normally when you want to enter a roundabout, you have to wait and to give way to drivers who are allready in. If these common rule is not valid you will find a massive amount of traffic sights in and around the roundabout. (Germans traffic authorities love to put massive amounts of signs for everything near the street).
Zipper merge is a common rule in Germany when 2 lanes get to one. In that case you have the right to drive to the end of the ending lane and to zipper into the other lane. The driver on the other lane should give you by law the right of your way.
But please be carefull with this because of the german driver mentalty. Be sure that you will meet a lot of drivers who doesn`t know or accept or ignore that rule because they are always willing to be the first or they drives a bigger, faster or expensive vehicle than you.
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18 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopathic
I guess not everyone got the memo. About a year ago the rules in KZ changed from old soviet type where runabouts were treated like intersection (main/secondary road, turning traffic yield unless circular blue sign oisted) where in some situations traffic entering runabout had priority to western style where traffic on the circle has priority.
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This was a few years ago, admittedly. But with the standard of driving in central Asia I doubt many people have read the memo anyway. When I was last there, there was a thriving industry of people paying others to take the test for them 
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18 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapax
Zipper merge is a common rule in Germany when 2 lanes get to one. In that case you have the right to drive to the end of the ending lane and to zipper into the other lane. The driver on the other lane should give you by law the right of your way.
But please be carefull with this because of the german driver mentalty. Be sure that you will meet a lot of drivers who doesn`t know or accept or ignore that rule because they are always willing to be the first or they drives a bigger, faster or expensive vehicle than you.
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That's a UK traffic rule as well, and you may see signs saying "Merge in turn". They are widely ignored, by drivers forming a long queue on the left while the right lane remains empty (we Brits love to queue!), or refusing to let others in at the merge point ("I was here first"). Worse still, the self appointed Queue Police who sit in the right lane with a long empty stretch ahead of them until they reach the merge point, ensuring the queue stretches out of hundreds of metres behind them.
Last edited by Tomkat; 18 Aug 2022 at 12:51.
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18 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
This was a few years ago, admittedly. But with the standard of driving in central Asia I doubt many people have read the memo anyway. When I was last there, there was a thriving industry of people paying others to take the test for them |
You'd be surprised it vastly improved in 3 years comparing to pre-pandemic. They have cameras everywhere and people are getting tickets in mail not only for speeding or running red light but even for violating runabout rules. And they will take your license for overtaking on solid line. This was true for all cities in KZ and KG, UZ is behind but catching up.
I was glad cameras don't take my tag but then I had been stopped a few times to explain why am I riding without license plate.
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18 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
That's a UK traffic rule as well, and you may see signs saying "Merge in turn". They are widely ignored, by drivers forming a long queue on the left while the right lane remains empty (we Brits love to queue!), or refusing to let others in at the merge point ("I was here first"). Worse still, the self appointed Queue Police who sit in the right lane with a long empty stretch ahead of them until the reach the merge point, ensuring the queue stretches out of hundreds of metres behind them.
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Try riding in rush hour Batumi traffic 
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19 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapax
...please be careful with this because of the german driver mentality. Be sure that you will meet a lot of drivers who doesn`t know or accept or ignore that rule because they are always willing to be the first or they drives a bigger, faster or expensive vehicle than you.
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I am very surprised that you say that.
As a Canadian who has travelled extensively through all European countries (250,000 km last 20 years), my experience has been that drivers in Germany are the safest, best-trained, and most rule-abiding in the world.
The Swiss are pretty good too, but scratch a Swiss and you find a German...
Michael
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19 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean
I am very surprised that you say that.
As a Canadian who has travelled extensively through all European countries (250,000 km last 20 years), my experience has been that drivers in Germany are the safest, best-trained, and most rule-abiding in the world.
The Swiss are pretty good too, but scratch a Swiss and you find a German...
Michael |
I agree with what you say but I find they are also the most intolerant and unforgiving of the slightest trasgression on the part of others.
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19 Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopathic
Try riding in rush hour Batumi traffic |
I tried that once. After a full day of glorious riding thru the mountains with only the vaguest idea where I was at, I descended at dusk, weary and hungry, into Batumi. Sheesh.
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