Looks like I need to learn battery basics...

I left my AT in Kathmandu for 5-6 weeks as I went home for a bit. I disconnected the battery prior to leaving. Retrieved the bike today. When I hooked the battery up all electronics powered on, but got a rapid click, click, click sound when pressing the starter, indicating not enough juice in the cells. Damn.

A random Nepali guy offered to jump my bike using 12V battery he removed from his car. For jumper cables we used two decent gauged pieces of wire, stripping the ends using my pocket knife. With him standing on the battery, clamping down the bare ends of the wires with his sandals, we jumped the bike.

How many errors have I made so far?

The bike started up and the battery gradually took a charge, although we had to jump is several more times. I just rode it for about an hour.

* Should I remove the battery, take it to a mechanic, and have him put a charge on it, or will it gradually recover a full charge over time? *

* Did I do any damage to the battery/ risk any damage to the bike? How/ why?

I was actually surprised the battery lost as much charge as it did. Naive? What basic battery knowledge am I missing? It is a "sealed battery" - not that I know that that means completely.

Basically, I am used to car batteries. I used to leave my vehicles untouched for the winter, reconnect the battery, start them right up. However, this is all I've ever done with my 07 Triumph Bonneville - the only other motorcycle I've ever owned - as well. For the three seasons I've owned it, all I ever did was remove the battery before storage, and throw it back in there when I returned home. No tender. Same battery for all 3 years. Not even a hint of a problem. I recently did it again when I went home. It had been sitting for a year. The battery was not on a tender. Same old routine: put battery back in, press start, go (okay, had to choke it/ warm it up/ let the WD-40 burn off, but basically pretty easy).

What should I know about moto batteries?

Many thanks,

Andrew

Assuming its a lead acid battery, (what comes in the bike), you did everything correctly by removing it before you left it. Batteries will gradually lose a bit even with nothing connected to them but usually there's enough even after 4-5 weeks to start the bike. Depending on the age of the battery and what kind of added load you normally have on the battery during normal operation, it may still be ok. If you have access to a battery charger, I'd charge it up with that rather than trying to have the bikes charging system do it. The bikes system will get it there eventually if you run it at high enough RPMs long enough but it really doesn't put out enough to recharge a dead battery if you aren't doing a lot of highway speed riding for several hours. I would not expect that you did damage to the battery, they gradually lose flakes of lead off the plates over time as they charge and discharge. As they lose the lead, they lose capacity to take a charge and wear out. If the levels of lead build up enough, the plates can short between themselves and turn two plates into one, effectively dropping the voltage down from around 12 to ten or even less if more that two plates short out. That's one of the reasons why a battery can go from what seems fine to completely useless randomly. That's a big reason why you might want to replace the battery if it's 3-4 years old but still seems fine. That's why I said at the beginning that depending on its age, it might be fine or it may not be fine...

In addition to the last post, I would add that our tiny motorcycle batteries have much less capacity (AmpHours) than car batteries - they are physically small to fit in a small space so they give up capacity compared with the big batteries.
Also, small batteries need to be charged with trickle chargers and not a "big boost" such as is provided by larger current battery chargers, such as those used for cars and trucks; for the latter reason I try to rely on the bike charging system (after all, it is a good excuse to go for a ride) and I use a trickle charger just for the cold weather; if you do take a battery off a bike then keeping it in warm conditions will maintain the charge condition much longer than when the battery is cold.

You might find this a good read:-
http://www.yuasaeurope.com/images/up..._Catalogue.pdf

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Dave

You did everything right.

I'd be looking for the next opportunity to replace the battery. Not worth the risk on tour. At home and commuting I can recharge the battery at either end if required so I'd take the risk there. But if I were to go away? Replace = cheap insurance.

THE FAQ for batteries www.batteryfaq.org

You might check the running voltage of your battery - after a ride before stopping the engine measure the battery voltage ... should be less than 15 volts and more than say 13. 3 (checks alternator/rectifier/regulator) rev the motor and check the voltage does not change much (checks battery/rectifier/regulator). If the bike was not charging the battery ok before you stopped then it could have had a low state of charge to start with before you disconnected it. So the storage may have drained off what little there was.

Actually there will be less long-term self-discharge under cold conditions than hot BUT this advantage may be counteracted if you then try to use the battery when it is very cold because a cold battery delivers less current than a warm one.

Always impossible to know how well-charged the battery was when you disconnected it. A short run the previous few days, extended idling with the headlights on etc and the battery could be well below normal charge anyway.

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Awesome info and links. Very much appreciated. Who knew there was so much to know about batteries.

Glad to know I didn't mess anything up :-)

So the bike didn't have enough charge to start this morning, which I anticipated.

After doing some research on my YUSASA YTX14-BS sealed 'maintenance free' battery and how to properly charge it, I took it to a mechanic here in Nepal with instructions to charge at 1.8 amps for 6 hours.

Immediately he opened it and added water to the holes, all of which were bone dry. What does this mean?

Anyhow, he put a charge on it with the caps off, re-sealed it, and gave it back to me. He did not have a voltmeter, but he did briefly connect the anode and cathode with a spare wire to confirm that it was charged.

It's currently leaks a bit of water from a corer of the plastic sealing cap when turned upside down or jostled.

Wanted to post on here before I hook it back up.

Also, if I'm gonna buy a new one, simply as a form of cheap insurance, what should I look for when buying? It's Nepal, so I'd like to make an informed purchase :-)

Thanks again!

I have a Yuasa YTX7L-BS and it is clearly marked on the top with "do not open" = the sealed for life battery that can be found described in the first few pages of the Yuasa catalogue link (up to about page 5 or thereabouts).
It is clear in the catalogue pictures that it is not easy to open their sealed for life batteries; the so-called "maintenance free" batts. which still need charging - to quote them.

The catalogue also shows the much earlier design of battery that has 6 little plugs that allow access for topping up the liquid/acid content of the battery with distilled water.
Such as the YuMicron pictures.
Maybe it is one of these plugs that is leaking? And, that is not water leaking but battery acid.

Yuasa are a highly regarded brand so get another if you do decide to buy.

Their recommended charge rate for the YTX14 is 1.2 Amps, if I have read their table correctly (as below).
BATTERY TYPE CAPACITY CAPACITY DIMENSIONS - MILLIMETERS WEIGHT ACID CHARGE CCA* TERMINAL ASSEMBLY
Ah (10HR) Ah (20HR) (± 2mm) with Acid VOLUME CURRENT @ TYPE FIGURE
L W H (Kg) (Litre) (Amps) -18°C (refer to page 10)
NOTE
YTX14AH-BS (ii) 12 12.6 134 89 166 4.9 0.66 1.2 210

ps In those Yuasa pics you can see that the maintenance free batteries have no line for showing the level of battery acid, whereas the other pics show the lower/higher level of battery acid clearly.

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Dave

Incidentally, I took my YTX7L-BS off a bike that had been standing, un-used and not started, for over 3 months.
It showed 12.5 volts when removed and after a quick charge of about 20 minutes (with a trickle charger that automatically regulates the rate of charge to suit the state of the battery) it showed 13.something on the multimeter; that was a few days ago. Now it is settled at around 12.5Vs which is good enough for me as an indicator of a good battery - see the blurb in the Yuasa catalogue about the rate of discharge of their batteries.

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Dave

Thanks Dave.

Yeah, the mechanic opened it pretty quickly and started pouring water in automatically. It's Nepal so they just kind of do whatever they know; and by mechanic I mean some neighborhood teen working out of his house.

I didn't see the Do Not Open until I got it back. Then the water started leaving out. It still does. I figured it was acid too, but a good bit of it got on my hands and didn't do a thing. The kid also said it was water and didn't look surprised.

What happened with the battery? Why were the holes dry in the first place? I'm assuming when it drained power, all the salts formed crystals on the plates and the water just evaporated, but my understanding is limited.

I've no voltmeter. Is it okay to hook it up, or could I risk serious damage to the bike?

Is the battery f'ed? I'm prob gonna buy a new one, but I imagine it'll be slim pickings here.

Thanks again for your help.


Also: just read that sometimes it's proper to open and add distiller water to a sealed lead-acid battery. Dunno what to mKe about the water dribbles. Perhaps it's turning into sulphuric acid as we speak.

Well, to use the old saying - you are where you are.
It can't do damage to the bike to hook it up again - with correct polarity and so long as it is not pouring acid over the paintwork!

I can't think of any useful comment about your particular sealed-for-life battery (it does depend on how old it is and "how hard a life" it has had); I would say go ahead and use it and see how things go. If it loses charge, or won't hold a charge in the first place, then it is on the way out basically. I am guessing here that you can ride around for a while, locally, to see how the battery performs.
If all of this feels like too much "risk" e.g. you are moving on, then a new one of any manufacturer should last "for a while".

There has to be a decent battery shop somewhere in KTM!
In the link above for FAQ about batteries there is purchasing guidance within the section 7 of the first article (car & deep cycle batteries) - all good stuff and probably far more information than you really want to know.
http://www.batteryfaq.org/

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Dave

Sorry, I missed that bit: the added (distilled) water is to top up the acid level - the acid provides the fluid within which the chemical reaction takes place.
Distilled water is (highly) recommended because it does not add any other dissolved chemicals into the reaction; for a one off instance of adding ordinary "tap" water I wouldn't be bothered personally, but, it is supposed to be sealed for life.

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Dave

Thanks, keep me straight here.

The FAQ covers it thus:-
"1.8. Temperature and temperature compensation matter! Heat kills batteries due to accelerating plate grid corrosion and cold reduces their available performance (CCA) and capacity (RC or AH) slowing down the electro chemical reaction"

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Dave

Ok... My experience
If the battery is dry - ie no fluid then putting a SMALL amount of water in is good .. but don't fill to the "minimum" mark .. just say enough to cover half the depth of the plates. Then charge the battery ... by some process fluid then 'appears' (may be the plates swell.. I don't know ... but if you fill then charge the fluid overflows, I did this!). Once charged top off to cover the plates or to mid way between the min and max marks.

With an over full battery .. it will leak. Drain out some of the fluid until it stops leaking (or to the max mark if you have one). Yes it is not good .. but having aggressive fluid over the bike is worse. So I drained. And replaced the battery when convenient. Oh wash any overflow off teh bike - as quickly as possible - use any water to hand, dirty puddles off the road are fine at least better than any battery overflow water.

For topping up batteries distilled water is fine, deionized water is better. If you cannot get either then drinking water is better than nothing, the cleaner the better.

A replacement battery? A fully sealed one is good - one with NO way of getting in (unless you take a drill to it). I like the AGM types. But you will have to look at what is available locally (Delhi? .. if your going there and the present battery looks like it will get there).


The battery faq does cover almost everything ... a very good read if you are interested.

I would add something to the battery argument.

Having your battery with low water level, can have multiple causes, one can be the hot season, high temperatures trasformed water in vapor; but one of the few problems of that bike is the regulator/rectifier that gets damaged, possibly sending high tension to battery drying it. You should check with a voltmeter that tension doesn't get over 14,8 volts also with engine at 3/4K rpm. The cause of this problem is often the connector between Regulator and stator (three yellow wires) that gets dirt and ultimately can also burn the whole bike!!!

So check at first the connector, there should be no sign of overheat, everything must be clean. Then check regulator tension and replace it if needed, then weld the three yellow wires if you see any sign of heat.
Another important thing is disconnect and clean ALL connectors around battery, starter relay and regulator. Any oxydated connector in that area can f*** your regulator and start your problems again.

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