I couldn't agree more, and the forthcoming BMW F850GS has tubeless tyres on spoked wheels which is a great step forward. Given the choice in the past between the F800GS and the F650GS twin I twice chose the F650GS due to it having alloys wheels and therefore tubeless tyres as standard.

There's no tubeless option on smaller KTMs so I run mousses on my KTM 690 Enduro. No need to carry tyre levers (tire irons), bike support, spare tubes, compressor. The first set of mousses I ran for 9,500 km, the second set for 7,500 km. Now on my third set. The decision to fit new mousses was more a concern whether they would last another 4,000 km for the next trip rather than them being at end of life.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

wonder how mousses fail, I mean what happens actually with the wheel when mouses breaks. Can you still ride at least slowly?

Been thinking about fitting them to my 500 exc but still a bit expensive, 100 euro or so vs 5 euro for a tube...I understand no mouses yet for heavier bikes like tenere etc?

The problem with BMW spoked tubeless wheels in the past has been how soft and weak they were. (Akront I believe?) Hopefully new generation spoked tubeless wheels are a bit tougher?

That's incredible!

I hear there is a "newer" less expensive Mousse product now? Which one are you using? I've never used Mousse inserts but what I always heard was about how HARD they were to install/remove. In the Africa Dakar the teams used to change to new Mousse inserts everyday. Now? Not sure.

I guess on the BIG powerful twins of the old days the Mousse inserts would melt from super high speed running. (over 100 mph)

Obviously OK on your 690. Are you able to change them yourself or does a shop do it? I heard in old days it was a 3 man job. Can any shop do this ... or?

The Michelin tire team at Africa Dakar had special proprietary (or had) equipment to do this job quickly. Now, I hear rumors it's done more easily.

What do you know about this? Seems to me it would make GREAT sense on a 650 class or lighter bike if highway speeds were kept moderate ? (maybe under
70 mph?)

I hear a Mousse is about equal to running about 12 to 14 PSI in your tires. True?

And what about this new mousse product I've heard of? Any info on that?

We've now clocked up 57000 klms on a 16 AT, riding it from Australia to Greece. My thoughts are as follows.

The suspension is cheap and far too soft, especially if riding two up. Additionally we in Australia are finding that the internal hard anodising is wearing away prematually. Honda Australia is aware of the issue, but as yet there has been no determination. I've resprung and revalved the rear Showa to take the weight. I've replaced the front with an Ohlins...........no more excessive diving under brakes. Otherwise too early to make further comment.

The rear right wheel bearing often fails prematurely. I've have now replaced it 3 times. Interestingly some other owners are getting 50000 plus klms. But many and I do mean many in Australia are experiencing early failure of this bearing, like we have. I've now fitted a 4206 dbl row bearing in place of the 6204 original, along with a narrower spacer. Lets see what happens.

I don't give two hoots about tubeless rims. If you are serious about going off road then you need tubes. Ok, I get it about the convenience. but my thoughts are that tose whom wish for tubeless rims either are too lazy to remove tyres or simply don't know how to efficiently. I did a rear Mitas, which can be a brute of a tyre at 13000ft in Kyrgzstan in 1 hr and 20 minutes. So whats the big deal?

The power for the bike I think is adequate. Ok, it's no power house, but for it's intended purpose I think it is fine.

I'm a huge fan of the KISS principal, thus do not care for ride by wire and other electronic "enhancements". What ever is wrong with a push/pull dbl throttle body cable? Nothing I would suggest.

Initially I was VERY disappointed with the 18.8 litre tank. It simply is not big enough, particularly in Australia. Buuuuuuuut I've come around to accepting it. At no time have we run out of fuel. if you take it easy you can squeeze up to 450 klms out of the tank. But I do mean taking it easy. None the less all AT models should be about 26 litres. That would nail it I reckon.

My spokes have rusted as all 16 & 17 model bikes have, so no surprise there. Because the bike is out of Australia, Honda Australia won't warranty the bike. That annoys me off big time. especially after their huge advertising campaign at release date about the bikes world traveling capabilities.

Other than the wheel bearings, the bike has not let me down. The unstressed characteristics help in this regard. I've run on 86 octane with no ill effects. Another argument to keep the engine low stressed and by definition under powered in some people minds. (not mine)

The seat is a shocker, but we had that modified prior to our departure Aug 16.

Those that plan to do a lot of off road, remove the windscreen support bracket and weld it properly then it shouldn't brake. This typically only occurs when you mount a GPS to the cross bracket.

If you are concerned about braking the right rider footrest hanger. Carry a m10 fine x 150mm hex or caphead bolt as an emergency back up. Because we have soft bags fitted to both the eng bars and the rear racks it's very unlikely that we will brake this hanger. I have dropped the bike numerous times and so far so good.

Hmm, I'm sure there are other observations, but that is what springs to mind just for now.

Our blog can be found here Chasing Rainbows, RTW on a H.A.T. | Adventure Rider

Great review of your AT and trip so far! I've now read a bit of your report on ADV Rider, great stuff. Thanks for taking the time to share!.

Very surprised your Shinko 805 has done so well. I too heard negatives. So GREAT to find a long lasting tire that works well off road yet survives highway riding.

I think you guys may keep more moderate speeds even on motorways? I know on long trips I always go slower ... like not over 60 to 65 MPH to preserve rear tire when far from getting another.

If we average 75 to 80 mph, most rear knobbies (TKC, Kenda Big Block, Michelin T63 and others) evaporate quickly doing high speeds.

You were wondering about a good front. One possible could be an odd ball I've found for my DR650. The IRC TR-8. I've tried Heidinau and Mitas, IMO, very untrustworthy on wet paved roads and weird handling depending on what rear tire you pair it with. But last well.

Both TKC and IRC do well on pavement within reason and you can carve the dry corners fairly hard.

Both the TKC and IRC developed "weird" wear patterns at about 6000 miles. But I ride very hard and brake hard on paved roads. So I expect that is why. Gentle riding I'm sure will bring a different result. BTW, the IRC out lasted the TKC and is MUCH cheaper (in USA anyway)

Interesting about repeated rear wheel bearing failures. The Suzuki DR650 has a propensity for this as well ... with disastrous results if you don't catch it early.

The solution that an Aussie guy (BergDonk on ADV Rider) came up with (and it seems to really HELP!) is to maintain fairly FRESH Cush Drive Rubber inserts.

This apparently helps keep everything more in line. When worn, hubb can move some, exerting pressure on wheel and hubb bearings. Just a thought, no idea if it's pertinent to your AT.

On the DR650 the Cush Drive rubbers only last about 10K miles at most. After that you can feel a roughness in drive train (feels like failing clutch basket) ... and of course you're on the road to failed wheel/hubb bearings. They look normal but somehow stop working. I've been through this on my 60K mile DR650.

On the DR650 when the central hubb bearing fails it can take out the entire hubb, leaving it unusable. It's only happened to a few owners, and mostly in Oz doing very hard, off road work.

Your videos were scary as Hell on those narrow tracks with 1000 meter drop offs. YIKES! Even worse than Death Road in Bolivia!

Interesting findings regards possible over tightening of triple clamps. I remember from my dirt bike Enduro racing days (AMA Enduro) to be very careful not to CRUSH the forks. They are soft ... and many crush them.

Those Ohlins are beauties. Hope you can get them dialed in for those rugged tracks you seem so fond of. Next up? Ohlins shock?

BTW, IMO, if you eliminate front end dive you may end up with a rather HARSH ride on the rough, bumpy bits. Fork dive is part of reality on big dual sport bikes.

The way to mitigate it is to use rear brake with front brake. (lightly of course) This will really help reduce fork dive. If me, I'd leave the settings plush and on the soft side unless doing ALL tarmac.

Stay safe out there! all the best.

Hi Mollydog, it seems we concur on most things. I thought the Hidenau's were pure evil and yes they have both strange wear patterns and road "manners". I seem to get high milage out of all my tyres. I put that down to a number of things. I neither accelerate nor brake hard and I maintain high pressures most if the time. 32/42 psi. I 've been pleasantly surprised with the Shinko 805, no bad manners at all that I can detect. By front TKC80 now has 18500 klms on it nd it could go some more. But I will change that in Tessalonika in a few days with a Karoo.

BergDonk is indeed the guru of all things DR, he lives just a 1 1/2 up the road from me.

The Cush blocks on the AT seems OK to me, but it is certainly worth keeping an eye on, thanks for the heads up.

The std front end, particularly two up was simply not up to the task. It's all a trade off, but the Ohlins will give better service for sure. None the less I take on board your comments. It's early days yet but I've only wound the dampening up 4 turns out of 16. I'll continue to play around.

Those roads in the video's weren't actually too bad. But "she whom must be obeyed", is getting a little fed up with "shitty goat tracks" (her words)

I'm glad you liked the blog, this year will be mostly asphalt, but a lot more rain I guess.

Recently I read about many cases of AT frames getting rusty...
Some owner considering even replacing whole frame

I was very eager to get new AT since some time but I must say I was
slowly but effectively cured from that wish by now

A relevant and pertinent point for more than one motorcycle manufacturer these days.

Possibly because of "thin" paint, and yet the car manufacturers do not seem to have similar levels of dissatisfaction with this aspect of the finish of vehicles.

Some would say that the usage of water based paints has led to thinner coatings overall. The trade would disagree, but they would say that.

__________________
Dave

Hi Tremens

Buy one and find out first hand IMO
Had my AT DCT now for 36.000 KM.
It's a great bike with very few issues.

Your experience is certainly a strong endorsement for the goodness of Honda's new Africa Twin ... but ....

Since we all can't possibly have in person experience with every Africa Twin in the world ... READING ... is about the only way we can gather information, get the opinions of other AT owners.

If you have a better idea to get feed back from HUNDREDS of other AT owners,
I'd love to hear it.

The real test is the credibility of those numerous sources. But even I, who have not tracked the AT that closely, have heard about the foot pegs breaking off in a minor fall. There have been a couple threads over on ADV Rider and elsewhere documenting this.

Others who follow those threads closely might know more ... I don't.

So yes, I read about that and several other rider reviews here and there. Hope that doesn't make me look too stupid!

Of course we may find stuff that's made up on the forums, or hyperbole ... and under reporting of problems too ... which I've seen BIG TIME on BMW forums. (It's like a religion ... criticism is not ALLOWED!

Seems to me the overall experience with the AT is good for most riders ... just a few glitches in an otherwise near perfect machine.

I read all the US and some British bike magazines. I've read/veiwed several good long term reviews, comparos to other bikes ...plus Video reviews on Utube. For the most part ALL GOOD ... and in terms of off road the Honda
has easily vanquished current competition.

Once the new KTM 790 and Yamaha T7 hit the market ... those opinions may change.

https://www.africatwin.org/threads/f...st-paint.1575/



Quality of the africa twin - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum

WOW! 18K km is amazing! My TKC did well too, but at round 6K miles
(10K km) the wear pattern started to get weird but that funky tire still handled well. I'm not a fan of Karoo ... but maybe latest ones are better? Been stuck with BMW's guys running Karoo's and quickly running out of tire far away from replacement.

Cool, BergDonk may have some ideas on AT bearings.

One "tell tale" note I remember from Berg's writings was a bit of wiggle in the hubb with bike on stand. On DR650 should not be much wiggle at all.

BTW, you can't tell by looking if Cush rubbers are worn. New and Old, to me, look the same ... but somehow swapping in new tightens things up, smooths out the drive line (this on DR650 ... no idea of affect on your AT)

Hope you two get nice weather. The Ohlins will be "The Dog's ... ". I've got an Ohlins shock on my DR650. When the bike goes, I take the shock with me!

Safe going!

you can swap the tyre the other way around so it will smooth the pattern out, same happened to mine tkc80. Very long lasting tyres, I did over 20k km and I could keep them longer still.