Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Kawasaki Tech
Kawasaki Tech Kawasaki Tech Forum - For Questions specific and of interest to Kawasaki riders only.
Photo by Hendi Kaf, in Cambodia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Hendi Kaf,
in Cambodia



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 6 Mar 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post

But two strokes are different than four strokes. Still, I don't think it will hurt it. The difference using motor oil is you can RUN the bike and really circulate the oil and heat it. This should give a better flush through the entire motor,
top end, oil feed lines, pump, clutch et al.

Patrick
What would worry me using diesel is most two strokes have ball or roller crank bearing (both big ends and mains) whereas fourstrokes (especially multicylinder ones) usually have white metal bearings which need oil pressure to run safely. But that is theory, I have no idea how it would work in practice. So I agree, use engine oil ( even thin engine oil)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12 Mar 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 303
Mollydog: The decompressor is controlled by the rpm of the exhaust camshaft and a spring only.
If the engine rpm is below approx 600/min the spring pulls a weight in which in turn turns a plate with a pin making the pin protrude out of the base circle of the cam.
The system is quite ingenous and more important: Fail safe.
The KLR starts easily with the decompressor deactivated or removed. A broken spring will also only cause the decompressor not to decompress.
I will have a look into more "exotic" possibilities of decompressor failure. Must go to the workshop and have a closer look at a KLR camshaft later today and let you know.

OldBMW: Not too much need to worry about the white metal journals. They have quite good emergency running capabilities (which they need for cold start for example). Flushing with Diesel should not cause problems as long as you only crank but not run the engine. I would worry a bit about how to get the Diesel out of the engine afterwards.
No need to worry about white metal journeys on a KLR as it has none. Like the majority of four stroke single the KLR's main shaft runs in roller bearings same as the con rod big end.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12 Mar 2007
Mr. Ron's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC, for now...
Posts: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Thoreson View Post
Andy! Hey, somebody's got to live the dream! Anyway, that's what employees are for! It's all about being a good delegator.

PatrickOT - Very interesting about the flush. I'm glad to hear that somebody has done it before. One (or two) side question(s): how did you get the bike back to civilization in order to do the flush? Or do you always travel with 5 liters of diesel fuel and 2.5 liters of oil just in case you tip over in a river crossing?

Thanks tons for your input guys. Well, MollyD, the hammer didn't work so I'm going to try something else.

Just a few side notes. It's a 2002 KLR650. The piston cracked between the first and second rings and was welded and machined down as good as possible. The problem began about 8.000 km later - just about enough time for the weld to start breaking apart. Every oil change the oil filter has lots of silver and black particles. The oil gets really really dirty more quickly than it should. I was using Castrol GP 20/50 mineral oil. (Just switched to Castrol semi-synthetic, which should give me a better range before having to change the oil again.)

About 1.500 km after each oil change, and the bike running perfectly with tons of power, it just dies. From one moment to the next it looses all of it's power and dies, literally. From running at 100km/hr, to the engine dying, but it's still in 5th gear, so it slowly slows down to a stop. I usually try to use the momentum that it has and release the clutch to push-start it, to no avail. Once we come to a complete stop, I try starting it for a few minutes without any luck. I turn the key off every once in a while and let it sit, then resume with the start button. Eventually it will fire and run perfectly for a few kilometers (sometimes until 10 or 20km), and then die again in the exact same way. After 3 or 4 of these episodes it won't fire again until I change the oil and clean the filter - then it starts up like she was new and runs perfectly for about another 1.500 km or so.

So to recap: the problem started after a piston weld. Now she runs perfect after every oil change, until the oil looses something of it's viscosity, then the problem returns. I change the oil and the problem goes away, temporarily.

For me, the problem is definately oil/particle related. I'm going to try to diesel fuel flush that PatrickOT used, and see what happens. If that doesn't work, I'll try some of the other suggestions.

It's pretty late here and I've got another long ride tomorrow, so I'm going to hit the hay right now.

Don't worry guys, I'll get back to you to let you all know how it all turns out. What I try, and what (hopefully!) fixes the problem.

This problem reminds me of an old DR125 i had when i was a kid. Would run fine, then die. Then run fine again, then die! WTF?? Turns out it was the electronic ignition module, it had a small crack in it. Sometimes it would work, then when it got hot, it died. Then it cooled off and would work again. A new one fixed the problem immediately.
I really can't see how the engine oil would cause this, or change it for that matter. My first guess is ignition, then fuel. The oil thing is just wierd luck?? in my opinion. I hope you work it out, keep us informed!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 13 Mar 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
...Maybe somehow it is being activated. No idea.
Patrick
(talking about the decompressor)
I had a look at the decompressor yesterday and it's a no - no.
The decompressor can not start to decompress while the engine is running. The camshaft has to stand still (no force on flyweight) to engage the mechanism.

Although the engine seems to be busy eating its guts :-o I also think that this is not what actually causes the engine to cut out.
Have you tried to check if the spark plug fires when the bike does not start?

I don't think the case of a "magnetic shortcut" is very likely. The particles would rather accumulate on the flywheels magnets at low RPM causing the bike to cut out when idling.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 14 Mar 2007
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,362
To find out if temperature is the cause -
If the bike runs in rain ..
Then a good temperature reduction test for the electrical components is a splash of water - cools them down and if that makes it run .. then next time throw smaller bits of water on just one componet at a time to time which is the faulty one..
__________________
---
Regards Frank Warner
motorcycles BMW R80 G/S 1981, BMW K11LT 1993, BMW K75 G/S
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 22 Mar 2007
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Medellin, Colombia
Posts: 29
Sorry I didn't get back to you guys sooner on this, MollyD, it's just that I was a little busy doing, wait, what was it again...oh yeah, traveling.on.my.motorcycle, camping out, getting lost on purpose... I hope you can understand and forgive my tardiness.

Update: 2.600 km since the diesel fuel flush and the bike's still going strong. That's not bad considering that the last two times I changed the oil I was only getting about 1.000 km before the problem resurfassed. We'll see how long it lasts, but it should be good as new since the problem was definately oil/particle related. And it continues to look that way since the problem appears to be gone after an engine flush.

Method:

Empty Oil.

Clean/replace oil filter.

Add 5 litres diesel fuel to engine. Disconnect spark plug. Set bike on it's side and press start button a few times. Repeat on other side. Back upright hit the start a few times again. Drain diesel.

Check diesel for particles. If necessary, repeat process with another 5 litres (remember my case was pretty severe with tons of metal particles). Make sure to have patience and drain as much diesel out as possible.

Now add a _light_ engine oil (I used 30), reconnect spark plug and fuel lines, and start engine. Let run for 10 minutes or so. Empty oil and clean/replace oil filter.

Add oil of your choice and you're off!!! Enjoy the ride!

Like I said, 2.600 km into the new oil and she's running great. No sign of any problem, which is logical considering that the majority of the particles are out of the engine - tons of particles showed up in the used diesel and oil filter.

My word of advise: next time you're stuck in the middle of nowhere with a piston problem, either leave the problem piston in the engine until you can replace it, or, if you're going to weld the piston, change it out as soon as possible.

I'd like to leave this oil in the bike at least until the specified range just to see if the problem is solved 100%, but I think I'll do another oil/filter change here pretty soon just in case there are more particles in there doing damage. And then I'll just have to ride, ride, ride! as much as possible to see if the problem is still there. So, ladies and gentlemen, back to work!

Thanks for all the advise team. I'll keep you updated.
__________________
www.motoadventures.org Photo Journal of My Alaska to Argentina trip.
www.casakiwi.net My Moto Hostel in Medellin, Colombia...with a garage of course.

Last edited by Paul Thoreson; 22 Mar 2007 at 04:20.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 23 Mar 2007
Mr. Ron's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC, for now...
Posts: 792
Hey Paul, i'm staying in your Hostal now and using your internet service to write this letter! Small world, eh? Glad you sorted things out. Molly's right, wierdest thing i ever heard of!
BTW, great garage! I rebuilt my carbs and had some liners built for my panniers from the kind fellow next door. Maybe i'll see you on the road!
Welcome
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine gone! Matt595 Yamaha Tech 13 18 Jun 2008 21:44
TTR 600 engine bolla Yamaha Tech 2 8 Jan 2005 20:18
Hole in engine bolla Yamaha Tech 3 5 Jan 2005 00:16
HJ 60 engine overhaul frnas Equipping the Overland Vehicle 0 28 Jan 2003 15:16
TRANSALP Special Engine Guard Gonzalo TRAVEL Equipment for Sale / Wanted 0 9 Oct 2000 05:17

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27 2025
Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
CanWest: July 10-13 2025
Switzerland: Date TBC
Ecuador: Date TBC
Romania: Date TBC
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21 2025
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:54.