Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Equipment, Travel > Navigation - Maps, Compass, GPS
Navigation - Maps, Compass, GPS How to find your way - traditional map, compass and road signs, or GPS and more
Photo by Andy Miller, UK, Taking a rest, Jokulsarlon, Iceland

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Andy Miller, UK,
Taking a rest,
Jokulsarlon, Iceland




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21 May 2009
Contributing Member
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Denmark, Western Australia (previously Derbyshire, UK)
Posts: 94
Exclamation GPS Reduced Accuracy / Outages 2010-2016

I saw a news report titled "Worldwide GPS may die in 2010, say US gov" here:

Worldwide GPS may die in 2010, say US gov • The Register

It's based on a US government report, which can be found here:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09670t.pdf

Having read the report, the title and content of the 'news' report is alarmist. The facts presented in the US gov report show that there is some risk that a full set of 24 GPS satellites will not be able to be maintained from 2010-2016, due to late delivery of replacement satellites.

To be able to understand what will happen if there are only 23 satellites, we need to think about what kind of a gap this creates. Each satellite takes 11h58m to orbit, following the same path day in, day out. It has three other satellites following it on the same orbit. So there are 4 satellites equidistantly spaced on the same orbit (or sometimes more than 4 if there are more than 24 GPS satellites in operation). This is then duplicated to give 6 sets of these 4 satellites orbiting on 6 paths around the world.

So if one of the 24 fails, and is approaching your location, there will be a 2hr59.5m delay until the following active GPS satellite on the same orbit appears (albeit this is actually a little more complex due to the rotation of the earth). Whilst you're waiting you are will experience a comparative drop in GPS accuracy. This will happen twice a day and may result in difficulty in obtaining an initial fix when you 1st turn on, or dropping down to a 2D fix, (ISTR location accuracy being about 1.5km in this case). However, unless you haven't got a good view of the sky- I.E. you're in a city (urban canyon) or hilly terrain (genuine canyon), you're unlikely to notice these degredations.

As usual, out in the wilds you should have maps and compass anyway. This is a good reminder to pack them. Bear in mind it's still failure of your own GPS receiver that is the biggest risk to your ability to use GPS.

So, in summary, GPS accuracy may be reduced if enough satellites fail, which could result in traffic jams in cities, because all of a sudden sat-navs are lost and car drivers don't carry maps any more. It could also be a little more tricky finding that cached jerry can of fuel in featureless terrain.....
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21 May 2009
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Posts: 3,971
And the user's on-the-ground experience will be.....what? Accuracy will drop to "within 100 meters?" Units will take longer to get a fix? Or they'll be rendered entirely unusable for hours at a time? And...these things will be true once in a while, here and there, regularly or irregularly....?

The thought of tens of thousands of taxi drivers newly arrived in large cities suddenly unable to find their way around bothers me far more than the thought that I might not be led directly to the correct entrance of my chosen hotel anyplace on the face of the planet.

Feel free to tell me to read the articles you linked so I can answer my own questions, if you don't want to bother.

Thanks.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22 May 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,598
The US does from time to time turn the network off by switching to encrypted mode. Do not forget its primary use is military. By allowing free use of it, it discourages anyone else bearing the cost of setting up a similar system. This monoply is due to end during the next ten years (ish) as both China and europe are co-operating in launching their own systems.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22 May 2009
Contributing Member
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Denmark, Western Australia (previously Derbyshire, UK)
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by markharf View Post
And the user's on-the-ground experience will be.....what? Accuracy will drop to "within 100 meters?" Units will take longer to get a fix? Or they'll be rendered entirely unusable for hours at a time? And...these things will be true once in a while, here and there, regularly or irregularly....?

My understanding is that there is at least an 80% chance that there will not be a problem.

That if there is a problem accuracy will drop, resulting in significant military tactical issues, but for civilians (unless you consider the threat of wayward ICBMs etc) a few flights may be cancelled or re-routed and GPS receivers could lose accuracy, particularly in cities and the mountains.

As I said above, I believe this could take accuracy down to 1.5km temporarily. I f it's a problem- park up for about 3 hours, then everything should be back to normal for a further 9 hours or so.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22 May 2009
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Posts: 3,971
Thanks, Ian. I see that you did indeed answer my questions, although I didn't understand what you had written well enough to notice---a convincing demonstration of my electronic ineptitude.

I will add errant ICBM strikes to my list of anticipated hazards on my upcoming trip.

enjoy,

Mark
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reduced Price for BMW F650ST Panniers and Racks ozhanu TRAVEL Equipment for Sale / Wanted 0 1 Dec 2005 08:16
Problems with Fugawi accuracy in South Africa ChristiaanM sub-Saharan Africa 1 15 Aug 2003 16:24
GPS / Map accuracy kün_va_19 Navigation - Maps, Compass, GPS 1 14 May 2003 18:41
GPS accuracy peterkik North Africa 2 20 Mar 2003 01:08

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

  • Virginia: April 24-27 2025
  • Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
  • Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
  • CanWest: July 10-13 2025
  • Switzerland: Date TBC
  • Ecuador: Date TBC
  • Romania: Date TBC
  • Austria: Sept. 11-14
  • California: September 18-21
  • France: September 19-21 2025
  • Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:45.