Does anybody know if a Satnav can be used in the same way as a GPS? namely make/follow tracks & routes that are not necessarily on roads...

I'm looking for a GPS that does both on road nav, (towns & cities etc) & offroad stuff as well, (in third world countries & europe etc)... the screens on the satnavs are better than most of the GPS' I've used, (Mostly Garmin types) & they are all connected to the bike battery as the power source.

At the moment the Garmin 78s is a preferred choice, but thought I'd just check the satnav route as well...

cheers in advance for any info...

GPS = Global Positioning System, uses satellites for navigation...

Satnav? = Marketing? Salesmanship ...? = Miss-leading!

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Not all GPS units have tracks, maps etc. The most basic (cheapest) GPS will only tell you your location - lat + Long.. no map, no tracks, no POI.

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I think you should select the thing based on what maps are available for that manufacture. Then select the model that has the features you want. Be aware that a large screen means it is more likely to be damaged, and attracts theft.

So what specific units are you thinking of? Ignore the marketing .. it does not help 10,000 miles from home.

Have a look at the Garmin Montana, or the new Android based Monterra, which uses the Montana form factor.

Very nice screen size, without being too big to use when away from the vehicle.

They can be used with road, topographic and nautical maps.

AFAIK, GPS is an American term and SatNav is proper English...

Maps are the limiting / deciding factor for me. Garmin maps are great in the countries where they are available, but they don't have detailed coverage in most of the 3rd world.

The Montana does allow some flexibility in using other maps, I've not tested that as I've managed (so far) to find 3rd party compatible maps.

The above 2 units also have very flexible power options, solid external power (not USB), included lithium rechargeable battery and you can augment with AAs in an emergency. They are robust, waterproof and have excellent mounting options, not something that can be said for cheaper GPS devices or phones.

Having said that, another option you should consider is a phone.
Comparing maps, one of the best options is OSM (Open Street Maps), they seem to have as good as or better coverage than anything else where I am, including Garmin and Google.
You can get OSM vector maps for offline (downloaded) usage, and tile maps with more detail and options such as the Cyclemap which includes topographic information.

I believe that because of the open source map development process, OSM will likely be the best mapping option for the foreseeable future, outside of the Western world.

It's a good idea to have as many map options as possible, often they will have varying amounts of detail and accuracy depending on the area.

I have a cheap Android chinaphone with a 4.2" display, and 5" and even 6.5" displays are available at a reasonable price. That's much bigger than most GPS devices.
My GPS reception is OK, I sometimes augment it with a cheap Qstarz BT1000X bluetooth logger for difficult conditions, or when I don't want the phone being exposed to weather, heat and dust.
We have a newer 5" Android that has excellent GPS reception, locks on in seconds.

Android gives you a lot of free or cheap GPS-based apps, many of which have multiple mapping options from OSM to Mapquest, Google and more.

I'm currently using the free version of OsmAnd for planning and navigation. Locus looks like another excellent app with about everything you would want (plus a learning curve you probably don't), but I haven't done much with it yet.

Then you also a bunch of other stuff such as lightweight GPS loggers / trackers, exercise and training apps and much more
I'm using GPS Logger as a lightweight background tool to collect track information to upload to OSM, and others can keep track of where you are / have been so that others (including your travel group) can follow along, often including notes and photos.

I'd guess that the Garmin Monterra would be able to do just about anything the Android phones can do, outside of 3G communications, but I'd want to get my hands on one first...


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I'm of the belief that the words Satnav and gps are synonyms of each other. All the comments above are very valid. I use a Garmin 60 csx and outside western Europe have been very happy with free downloaded osm maps.

I have heard that Garmin is using/ stealing/ trying to steal osm maps and rebadge them as their own because osm maps are far superior to their own offerings.

I would stear clear of anything by Tom Tom.

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What does the OP mean exactly by "a GPS"?

There is no such thing as "a GPS" ... there is "THE GPS", which is a US Govt owned satellite network first globaly operational in 1993, used to send signals that can be received and translated into a position fix by GPS compatible devices.

There is also GLONASS, the newer Russian Govt owned satellite network that does the same thing with currently similar accuracy, but is scheduled to be accurate to 0.6 metres by 2020. Then there is the GALILEO system, an EU Govt owned system that is newer and more accurate again, but wont be fully operational till 2018. The Chinese govt are developing their own system (BEIDOU or COMPASS) as well. Apparently the Chinese system is due to be operational in 2015 but only offers accuracy to within 10 metres.

So the term GPS as it relates to the receiving unit is now out of date. Most mobile phones, and many of the newest receivers receive both GPS and GLONASS signals, and no doubt soon will also receive COMPASS signals.

As to what exactly is a sat nav? I assume any positioning unit that is capable of guidance. I am sure pretty much any "sat nav" is also capable of functioning as a moving map display (i.e. positioning without guidance)

Additional reading: http://electronicdesign.com/test-amp...ict-gpsglonass ... real world testing highlights the overwhelming superiority of dual GPS/GLONASS as opposed to GPS alone.

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hey guys thanks for all the info, very helpful, especially tigershel... I'm gonna stick with the original plan & buy the Garmin 78s as we use them in the Antarctic on skidoos all the time, they very robust & you can add the maps the same as the Montana range, mounts aren't as good but hey ho, that can be sorted... bike almost completed, now just gotta finish this contract & its playtime on the TAT as a shakedown for bigger things...
Again thanks for all the info...
steve

I found this link for free Garmin compatible maps from OpenStreetMaps today: http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/.

Could help get around the map advantage the Android phones using OSM have...

It may be worth going to an outdoor shop and playing with something like the Montana.
I have the previous version of the 78 (76CSx) and find some major limitations for automotive use.

Admittedly its about $150 more at Amazon.

The two big advantages are the glove compatible touch screen, which makes searching and any other data entry so much faster and the much bigger screen.
The screen also auto rotates, so you can use it in landscape or portrait modes.
That's more useful than you think: usually I use it in portrait mode so as to get a better idea of the route ahead, but sometimes there are a bunch of side roads that I need to select from. In that case I flip the unit to get a better view to either side.
Not that useful when the map is routeable, but in the 3rd world, many maps I've tried are not, and also don't have street names.
A big screen is also good for my old eyes that aren't what they were, you may not have that problem...

There's a coincidence
You should take a look at the sticky threads in this forum for maps, compass etc.

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Dave

Yep, the term GPS has become generic, but that is understandable; arguably, "GPS" will remain so for all of the various satellite constellations that are now in orbit and will be launched in the future.
After all, they all serve the function of a global positioning system, albeit with varying degrees of accuracy made available to the public.

The early models of GPS receivers were interesting to me because they gave basic information - lats & longs, perhaps compass headings - that needed to be interpreted, but since such raw data has been overlaid onto electronic maps (arguably that is what a "satnav" is = integration of the positioning data with a map for the purposes of navigation) then it has lost that element of skill in the use of the data, blah blah etc etc. You get the idea.

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Dave

Just to clear things up - hopefully...

Satnav is simply short for Satellite Navigation. There are currently 3 global operators, GPS, NAVSTAR and GLONASS. There are also a few regional operators (China, France, India and Japan) who are currently in development/deployment phase.

GPS has become a household name, much like 'Googling'. There are others, but people know what you mean.

So if you want a Satnav, you can mean a regional or global satellite navigation system, which for many of us means using GPS.

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Yes, it's used generically, and that continues, at a pace, in other threads such as:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...in-et-63191-10

Or, even in the title of this forum.
Navigation - maps, compass, GPS

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Dave