In February 4 of us intend to cross Sahara with 2 12 years old Renault 4.
Tunisia, Algir, Niger, Burkina Faso, Mali Senegal,Mauritania, Maroco.
Im interested about carnet. Where do I need it?
How to make aluminium sheet?(Where to buy it)
Any other tips?

Unless things have changed in the last few weeks, you don not need a carnet for any of the above mentioned countries. I am open to correction on this.

What do you mean by "aluminium sheets"?

I mean stuf that you put under the wheel.
Thankes


[This message has been edited by Janez Jevnikar (edited 08 October 2002).]

Zdravo Janez.
I cross Sahara with my Diane last year. Maribor - Marocco - Mauretanie - Mali and back. We can met on a coffee or somethink.
Aluminium sheet you can do it your self!
Call me 031/620974
gregor

Re aluminium sheet: commonly known as "sand ladders". You can make these yourself or get them made. See page 109 in Chris scott's book for ideas.

Alternatively you could use the army surplus Perforated Steel Plates (PSP)which are often cheaper though a lot heavier.

Re aluminum sheet, we have made a chance discovery that works just perfect:

In many hardware stores you can buy heavy duty iron grid doormats (the ones that are supposed to scrape off mud from the soles), some as large as 100x30 cm. They are light weight, yet remarkably strong. Two can recover a fully loaded Landcruiser stuck to the axle with just two. They do bend slightly, and sink a little in to the sand, which helps reduce the climb gradient and actually makes recovery easier.

We've been using these for the past two trips in the Libyan Desert, had no need for the big heavy 'proper' sand sheets on any occasion.

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Happy Travels,
Andras

FJ Expeditions

I will probably do aluminium sheet by my self, becouse Im living in Slovenia, and I belive the hardvere store here does not have this stuf, geting British army stuf here is almost inpossible. So, wish me good luck on making them.

Why don't you post a message asking if you really need them?

With properly lowered tyre pressures you'll get through much more easily than messing around with ladders.

Admittedly always with 4wd, but I've spent well over a year in total pottering around the deserts of the world, and have never taken (or needed) sand ladders.

They're heavy, bulky, potentially expensive and you are better off with a good compressor.

I'd be interested to hear others' ideas on this one.

Sam.

Agree with Sam up to a point. If you chose the correct tire pressure, it is quite hard to get badly stuck. However a 2wd differs on one marked point - if just one of the driving wheels get stuck, the other will start spinning, and it's of no use that the two non-driven wheels are on good solid ground. In such a situation it's a big help if you can place something under the spinning wheel to make it grip. (I had an hour's fun in the Sinai getting our rented Corolla out of loose granite gravel, with something to put under the wheel, it would have been no more than five minutes)

I fully agree however that the big heavy sand channels are totally unnecessary, especially for a light R4. anything made from a light strong material will do.

A possible suggestion is the plastic grass protecting grids that can be bought in any large gardening store - they are used to protect the grass in driveways - you dig them in when making the lawn, the grass grows in the holes, but the structure is strong enough to support the weight of the car even in wet soggy ground, so the grass is not damaged. They can be bought in 30x30 cm parts, and be joined together for any length.

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Happy Travels,
Andras

FJ Expeditions

I think if you take a 2WD you definitly need "sand ladders". You may or may not need them but it make the difference between several hours work or just a few minutes. I have seen where it was the difference between losing the car altogether. A light car like a R4 doesnt need the heavy duty stuff. Some good strong planks of wood will do as well. Ive seen people use the rubber mats off conveyor belts as well on a 2CV, works too (sort of). I suppose if you take the R4 you will need some sort of a bed or "platform" in the back to sleep on, with a bit of planning then you can integrate the planks of wood into this.

I know what Andrasz is talking about, they work too, especially for heavy vehicles. There is another system which I have been using for some time and I think it is the best. There is a kind of alluminium plank that is used especially in southern Germany, the Alps and the Pyrennes. It is put on the steep roofs of houses so you can walk on it when there is snow and ice. In German they are called "Dachlaufrostgitter", dont know the name in English.They are made of aluminium and have a grip cut into them which are perfect for getting a grip with car tyres. You can strengthen them with aluminium pipes.. I have four of them on a HJ60 in Mali and usually drive with a total weight of 3.2 or 3.4 tonnes. I have also used them on >Mercedes 608 (5.2 tonnes total weight) and they worked out fine too.After a couple of years they are still in good shape. I can also carry all four of them -6m in total- on my shoulder no problem. A length of 3m costs about 33 Euros. They are probably over the top for a light R4 but for other people I can recommend them.

I think if you take a 2WD you definitly need "sand ladders". You may or may not need them but it make the difference between several hours work or just a few minutes. I have seen where it was the difference between losing the car altogether. A light car like a R4 doesnt need the heavy duty stuff. Some good strong planks of wood will do as well. Ive seen people use the rubber mats off conveyor belts as well on a 2CV, works too (sort of). I suppose if you take the R4 you will need some sort of a bed or "platform" in the back to sleep on, with a bit of planning then you can integrate the planks of wood into this.

I know what Andrasz is talking about, they work too, especially for heavy vehicles. There is another system which I have been using for some time and it is best which I have tried so far. There is a kind of alluminium plank that is used especially in southern Germany, the Alps and the Pyrennes. It is put on the steep roofs of houses so you can walk on it when there is snow and ice. In German they are called "Dachlaufrostgitter", dont know the name in English.They are made of aluminium and have a grip cut into them which are perfect for getting a grip with car tyres. You can strengthen them with aluminium pipes.. I have four of them on a HJ60 in Mali and usually drive with a total weight of 3.2 or 3.4 tonnes. I have also used them on >Mercedes 608 (5.2 tonnes total weight) and they worked out fine too.After a couple of years they are still in good shape. I can also carry all four of them -6m in total- on my shoulder no problem. A length of 3m costs about 33 Euros. They are probably over the top for a light R4 but for other people I can recommend them.

I believe that this "Dachla......" is a good idea. If it"s aluminium it should"t be so heavy and I belive I don"t need Al pipes.
Maybe this plastic stuf is also OK.
My tires are originaly 135/13. Do you think I should put on 145 or 155?

Zdravo!
I think at least 145 if not155. I have problems with flat tires on my Dyane just because of this reason I was driving with 135/15. If I say ninety times I am not exaggerating. So I can open my own business. Second problem was the weight. But I learned. For small 2WD car are most important good tires, low weight and good ground clearance. By 2cv is possible to increase ground clearance, but don’t know about R4.
gregor

This bloke( http://www.takla-makane.com/ ) as done extensive travelling throughout northern Africa and the Gobi desert in a modified Citroen 2CV.

Perhaps you can write him asking details on the modification that he as done.

__________________
Desert Crocodiles of Mauritania: http://cibio.up.pt/crocodilos/en

Janez,
Did a fair old bit in Morocco with a 2cv along with a group of French who regularly do big trips with 2cv.

Go for the bigger tyres(but not too big recent trials in Aus by some friends found that 165 caused more problems than good) i found 145s on a 2cv really good.
Sand plate-we took 'chequer plate'the stuff that you see used for everything, usually to make your old Landy look good.It is 3mm thick with 'rice grain'tread on it. It was light I put a 20mm fold on each edge to make it more rigid but wished i hadnt, just leave it floppy.
Finally WEIGHT is the biggest problem, by the time you add extra fuel and water you dont have much left for anything else our best bit of advice was 'Think like a bike bring nothing'so leave the table and chairs get the lightest Alpinist stove do you really need a tent? etc etc.
Have a great time show these 4x4s how to do it;^)
Sean
look at http://members.tripod.com/France_2cvClub/