Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Regional Forums > North Africa
North Africa Topics specific to North Africa and the Sahara down to the 17th parallel (excludes Morocco)
Photo by Andy Miller, UK, Taking a rest, Jokulsarlon, Iceland

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Andy Miller, UK,
Taking a rest,
Jokulsarlon, Iceland



Trans Sahara Routes.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 1 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 138
More or less the same for us, we arrived around 3 pm, we started paperwork with the police ( after doctor control ) but unfortunately for some of us the visa started the following day, so we was not allowed to cross, we set the the bivouac near the border ( we was inform about the auberge the following morning grrrrr).
We woke up early and was ready for the customs at 6 am and finished at 9 am.
and stop almost one hour at the first CP, 150m after the border.

South is beautiful but far, very far from the border

Eric
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 4 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Washington View Post
In Algeria, perhaps it is the guides, who sign their live's and the lives of of their families away to look after their clients.
Richard,

What do you mean by that?
__________________
----------------
Roman (UK)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 4 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Oxford, U.K.
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman View Post
Richard,

What do you mean by that?
This was based on conversations with Algerian guides in Algeria. The guides become personally responsible for the tourists they are with for the time that the tourists are in the country. The authorities apparently make this clear to the guides and the strong suggestion is that the guides will suffer consequences if something were to happen. I wonder if anyone else has heard similar?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 4 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 332
Richard,

>The guides become personally responsible for the tourists they are with for the time that the tourists are in the country.

That is true, they sign a contract, usually at the Gendarmes post at the border.
__________________
Yves
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 4 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves View Post
Richard,

>The guides become personally responsible for the tourists they are with for the time that the tourists are in the country.

That is true, they sign a contract, usually at the Gendarmes post at the border.
I took that to be a marketing ploy, so they oblige you to sign them on for the whole trip and pay for every day. When I asked agencies "what if?" they meant that it was little they could do. Protection is from the gendarmes.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 5 Dec 2009
Chris Scott's Avatar
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,913
... I wonder if anyone else has heard similar?

I never have and I wonder whether this may have been a case of b/s to try and impress clients about the terrible pressure they are under.
IME guides (who are very poorly paid - the cars are rarely theirs) rarely want to take risks or follow interesting diversions at the best of times and AFAIK itineraries are approved by the wilaya or gendarmes.
Once that is done it would be pretty severe to what... send a guide's family to the salt mines just because he and his clients were unlucky enough to get nabbed?

For sure the agency (and so it's employes) is responsible and any funny business (most likely collecting neolithics/sand) it would lose its license.

But as with so much in Algie, what do we really know...

Ch
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 5 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Oxford, U.K.
Posts: 625
The interesting thing in the case/conversation I quoted was that the claim came from a person who was a stand-in (i.e. temporary) guide who came to our assistance following some problems with a vehicle with a regular guiding company. The temporary stand-in guide spoke openly about the agreement he had signed. The context of the conversation was that, far from us as tourists being afraid of any eventuality, he, as the stand-in guide had more to fear because he had guaranteed our safety.

A fuller set of circumstances on the trip is described here:
Sahara with Series 2A Land Rover

I mention this detail because a stand-in guide would probably not be motivated to make false claims for the sake of the tourist industry. He was not normally involved in the tourist industry and made it pretty clear he didn't much like tourists anyway. He may, of course, have had other motivations for saying what he did. That is why I asked if others had heard such claims. One case would not prove all.

Still, we are left with explaining why AQ-M, which began in Algeria pretty much, has not kidnapped tourists in Algeria since 2003 whereas they've spread the net now from Niger to Mauri. There must be a reason. At the same time AQ-M have transitted the country, sometimes with prisoners (Austrians from Tunisia). So the threat imposed on them by the Algerian military does not explain everything either.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 5 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 138
Hi
Yes it's totaly true. Our guide was not an official guide, actually he was a friend of the couple who organize the trip, he made an agreement with a travel agency . And at the border when he signed the contract he realized the commitment he took, an really the police at the border was clear, he was responsible of us and for all which could happened. In Algeria it seems that every body fear the police.
When we (the bikes rapidly followed by the car) went off road at Borj El houes until Djanet, he was really angry against us, because at the check point before the military said stay on the road.

After Djanet and until Illizi throug Tam not control at all, it seems not logical at all, I don't think that all controls are for our safety, I think it is just to have a total control within the oil area, and after they don't care.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 5 Dec 2009
Chris Scott's Avatar
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,913
I believe controls and regs vary from wilaya (province) to wilaya. Illizi town and Djanet are in Illizi wilaya which extends well north of HbG. Although there are plenty of oil installations around In Amenas etc, the current checkpoints (as well as piste closures) are I believe primarily an over-reaction to 2003 which all happened in Illizi wilaya. A shame as, as far as pistes go, Illizi wilaya was about as good as it got in Alg.

Tam wilaya (which on the regular piste starts at the re-occupied Serenout fort) is more relaxed, AFAIU, although I dont know why - is it just lack of oil installations? That is why were were going there next Feb, to roam around where we liked.

Ch
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 5 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,465
As far as I have heard, there hasn't been any incidents in the Algerian south for years now?

We had a number of guides after driving from Tunisia to Illizi without one.
Sometimes we had a contract with an agency, sometimes not. For the guide from Illizi to Djanet, nothing was written down or signed (except for the renseignement). Nor did we ask for it - we only gave him a ride because they wouldn't let us through without him.
What kind of responsibility would the guide/agency carry? Accidents? Theft? Kidnapping? What could the penalty be, other than loosing the license to operate?
What is written in the fine print when signing with say Tanezrouft?
And what could they do if beards with Kalashnikovs showed up?

From our experience, a guide is not mandatory except for in some parts - the desert between HBG and Illizi. And Illizi wilaya. Could be because of 2003?
Between Djanet and Tam there's barely a checkpoint.
Going west from Tam to Mali. we could have done it without a guide but preferred not to. And if we had run into the gendarmes on the way down, I don't think they would have let us go alone.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 8 Dec 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 775
Hello,

I asked Richard about an explanation as I was assuming it may have to do with some sort of unwritten code. political alliances, clan politics, etc. But the outcome is that Algeria is in this respect very much like Egypt. And I remember hearing the same line in Libya, too: "In the desert we are 100% responsible for you, and we won't leave you, no matter what".

In reality it was as much a matter of honour as public relations and the simple truth that an agency losing a client, or guiding a client who misbehaves, will also lose the licence, hence his whole family will suffer, too.
__________________
----------------
Roman (UK)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help Wolf Rims doubts!!!!! sherifsalem Light Overland Vehicle Tech 12 19 May 2013 00:27
SOUTH KOREA: motorbike doubts and advices!!! Thanks! pegaso adv Route Planning 4 31 Dec 2008 06:56

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

  • Virginia: April 24-27 2025
  • Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
  • Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
  • CanWest: July 10-13 2025
  • Switzerland: Date TBC
  • Ecuador: Date TBC
  • Romania: Date TBC
  • Austria: Sept. 11-14
  • California: September 18-21
  • France: September 19-21 2025
  • Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:21.