Hi all,

I've been researching a lot as I hope to either ride from London to Cape Town or vice versa. Reading up it sounds like Egypt is nothing short of a pain in the *** when it comes to bringing a vehicle and I would like to avoid it. The problem is getting from Europe into Africa and wondered if it's possible to somehow get to Libya from Europe and then head to the Sudanese border and then onto Ethiopia etc.?

I imagine I would need an armed guard/tour guide to escort me. Also not sure what's happening with Tunisia or even if there are ferries to Libya.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Antony.

Hi Anthony. This question was asked about a year ago for the same reasons, but judging by the recent news from Kurfa, Egypt is still a much safer option, despite all the aggro.

Libya to Sudan is a common smugglers route, now more than ever I imagine, but not a recognised border crossing.
I have not heard of any tourist doing this route since the Bagnold era.

I imagine whatever armed escort you might recruit will have to win over a variety of local militias on the way. Like the bloke in Pulp Fiction says, that would have to be one charming … individual.

By comparison, I don't see Tunisia as a worry. I am sure the regular ferries from Genoa and Marseille run as before. Even if there are ferries direct to Libya, I believe the ports are not set up for overland tourist immigration (numbers plates, etc).

Plus - it's only the getting in and out of Egypt that is a pain. Once in, there is a lot to see there wrt antiquities - and all without tourists crowds or, as I see it, any real danger to foreigners, unlike parts of Libya.

Ch

Thanks for responding so quick. I guess he'd have to be more charming than old Arnold on Green Acres....

I've been looking and really can't see any way of getting the bike to or from Egypt and Europe without putting it in a container and flying over which I'd much rather avoid. The country also seems to charge excessively and unnecessarily for everything. Perhaps that's part of the adventure, but a lot of people seem disgruntled with the process and I wondered if it was possible to avoid it - especially since I'll be on a shoe string budget.

Arnold… that's the one.

If it makes you feel any better, Egypt borders were an arseache and Lake Nasser a rip-off even before the revolution. And Africa is not a cheap continent to travel like Asia, despite being as full of poor people.

Like you say, accept it as part of the adventure and submit to the will of the men in hats. Along with Libya, I bet that stage all the way to Ethiopia will be what you remember best. Luxor alone will be worth it, IMO.

Ch

Libya to Sudan is a common smugglers route, now more than ever I imagine, but not a recognised border crossing. I have not heard of any tourist doing this route since the Bagnold era.

I think Reinhard Mazur did this route around 1998 or something. And also some French. But nowadys quite challenging indeed. Many Zaghawa bandits in north Sudan I hear

You are right about Reinhart, Gerbert. It could only be him.

SAHARA TRAVELS - Libyen - Djibouti - Arabien - 2000/2001

'Zaghawa bandits?' - a new one on me. They don't sound very friendly.

Ch

Fair enough. I'm still at a loss how to go about doing it though without paying a fortune to send the bike ahead of me in a container (Europe to Egypt). At least it seems there's now a road linking Egypt with Sudan so the additional ferry crossing isn't necessary?

When it happens there will still be a ferry crossing, but < 1 hour? from Abu Simbel to Qustul on the east side. And being Egypt, the service won't be like popping over to Calais.

It's that or taking the west coast or shipping 2000km from Aqaba to Djibouti, if that is even possible.

Ch

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Zaghawa are a tribe from Darfur (and east of Chad). Tubu in Chad told me they attack traffic in the far north of Sudan. But probably they are not the only bandits

Hi Chris,

Very interesting discussion (and I like the comparison with the ferry to Calais)

What do you mean about Amman to Djibouti? And how it's possible, now, to go to Amman from Europe (except by plane)?

I'm interested because I'm planning a similar trip (Tos Sudan and Ethiopia) next year and I'm worried about crossing Lybia (after reading Temehu news: Libyan Travel & Visa News).

RR.

Sorry, I wrote Aqaba and the annoying spell check put in Amman ... ;-)

I was just speculating that one might find a boat from Jordan to Djib or Eritrea, and that was particularly for a moto on deck, not a car.

You can to Jordan via ferry to Israel from … I've lost track. Cyprus (via Turkey?) or Greece? It's on the forum somewhere.

Ch

Hi all,

Very interesting discussion indeed! Let's try to summarize a few points:

1.) To my knowledge, there are no car ferries from Europe directly to Libya yet, and as Chris rightly pointed out, it wouldn't be worth the hassle anyway. Ferries to Tunisia are frequent and entry into Tunisia is pretty much straightforward.

2.) Libya to Sudan is a no-go, today more than ever! Officially not allowed for foreigners anyway and given the security situation, this would probably be tough even if you spoke perfect Arabic.

3.) Yes, entry to Egypt is a hassle and not cheap (though the fees - except for the carnet itself - should be OK for a bike), but Egypt itself is probably the cheapest country on the trail to South Africa. Fuel is cheap, accommodation and food are very cheap, so the "entry fees" should actually not really matter and are certainly cheaper than shipping the bike elsewhere. And yes, Egypt with very few tourists is beautiful!

4.) Aqaba to Djibouti is possible (though I only inquired for a car at the time, not a bike, and so was in need of a container). While the fees for the transfer seemed reasonable, the handling fees in Djibouti port were so high that I eventually cancelled the plan.

5.) There are basically two options these days to reach the Middle East by boat: a) by Grimaldi Freighter Cruises from Salerno or Monfalcone in Italy to Haifa / Ashdod in Israel or b) with Salamis Lines from Greece via Cyprus to Israel and then on to Jordan. From Jordan, entry with a bike to the Sinai peninsula (which seems to be impossible today with a 4WD) of Egypt might still be possible and give you another option.

6.) In your first posting you indicated you might as well do the trip the other way round. That would certainly be a lot easier: Less hassle upon entry into Egypt in Aswan, and - if the Sinai is possible by bike - a good continuation through Jordan or directly into Israel and from there onward to Europe. No problems with the Israeli stamp etc.

Last but not least: While trying to squeeze your costs because you are travelling on a shoestring budget, Chris' remark is very valid: "Africa is not a cheap continent to travel like Asia, despite being as full of poor people."

Greetings,
Achim

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me. I need to check up these places but did see a post of someone who took a ferry from Greece to Israel and then had to ride through Jordan to get a short ferry into Egypt to get their carnet. The thread is here: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...420#post451379.

It seems likely if I do this I'll be heading up from South Africa although does mean I'll be in North Africa around the hottest time which will suck. I had a look at getting the Carnet in advance but paying 200%+ deposit on the cost of the bike isn't really an option for me at the moment and I don't trust that at all. How much is it presently for a motorbike to get the Carnet on arrival?

Also, why would it be much easier to enter Egypt from Sudan rather than the other way?

As for the shoe string budget, I would probably start with around £2000 in the bank after buying the bike and gear, but do have an online company that pays around $1000-$2500 a month. This is actually a big concern of mine as I will need a regular internet connection to keep it alive. Are there mobile internet dongle options that can be used throughout Africa?

I know I should save much more, but I'm in a position where I just want to go.

Sorry, just read up and whether S.A. or UK the carnet is guaranteed with the AA or RAC with something like a 10% deposit or R10,000. Still a pain but not as prohibitive as twice the amount of the motorbike.

Hi Achim,

You wrote:

"While the fees for the transfer seemed reasonable, the handling fees in Djibouti port were so high that I eventually cancelled the plan.

5.) There are basically two options these days to reach the Middle East by boat: a) by Grimaldi Freighter Cruises from Salerno or Monfalcone in Italy to Haifa / Ashdod in Israel or b) with Salamis Lines from Greece via Cyprus to Israel and then on to Jordan. From Jordan, entry with a bike to the Sinai peninsula (which seems to be impossible today with a 4WD) of Egypt might still be possible and give you another option.

6.) In your first posting you indicated you might as well do the trip the other way round. That would certainly be a lot easier: Less hassle upon entry into Egypt in Aswan, and - if the Sinai is possible by bike - a good continuation through Jordan or directly into Israel and from there onward to Europe. No problems with the Israeli stamp etc."

Sounds very interesting for me who is planning a trip from Djibouti to Europe (with Ethiopia ans Sudan on the way) but I'm now worrying about what you said about fees in this port: Shipping my 4wd to Djibouti is already very expensive and if I had to pay these extra fees... Have you an idea for the whole price for sending a 4WD from Europe to Djibouti?

Other question: you said it's impossible to cross Sinai with a 4wd, so taking the ferry from Nuweiba to Aqaba, is the solution? and after, possible to enter in Israel with a diesel (Solar) engine (I've been told it was impossible, but it was a long time ago!).

I would prefer the Libyan solution, but for the moment it seems too much insecure.

RR.