Chris:
ok I understand now, of course if you paid so less, not even worth trying to get the money back. How difficult is it to estimate the value of the bike so low, do people from the custom in Mongolia know something about bikes?

If you import the bike to Mongolia, it is possible to go to Russia with it then? I don't really see that there is a problem with it, but better know now.

I dont want to put the bike in a train to Moscow, I don't have time for this. And I already rode from Switzerland all the way to Mongolia, it's long and boring, now I want to go diretly to the fun parts!!! ;-)
I will contact Sybille from the Oasis, she might help, you are right.

kalusmong1:

you didn't exactly understand my plan. I am only going to mongolia, because it's the cheapest way to send a bike from europe (germany). The shipping company is quite near from Switzerland.
My plan is to ride in Russia, the western BAM and the Road of Bones.
So yes, I will enter Russia, and go to Magadan. Sell the bike in Russia if I can, or go back to Mongolia to either sell it or ship it back.

I am thinking more and more about not making a ATA carnet, trying to declare a low value for the bike and pay the tax in Mongolia. Then I am cleared to sell it on my way back if I didn't sell it in Russia.

And I understand that if I want to sell it in Russia I have to clear the customs.
I have some russian friends, will try to get some help.

The bike chassis/engine is on 1988 papers. It also looks very bad cosmetically.

I don't see it's a problem either. The bike is on British papers (and has never been "exported" from Britain) and it was only "imported" to prevent it being "abandoned/sold illegally" in Mongolia without paying Mongolian taxes. I only bothered to "import" the bike to placate Sybille at Oasis.

Mongolian customs are very aware of many people in the past just entering their country and selling/abandoning their vehicle illegally. Also events like the Mongol Rally are of great interest for Mongolia customs. Last summer it took the Mongol Rally competitors at Tashanta/Tsaganuur about 36 hours each to clear customs because of all the paperwork that needed completing.

__________________

TBS.com

Why not buy a bike in Mongolia? Ride around and then resell it there?

So I finally did it. Shipped the bike to Mongolia with Pan Europa. As I was leaving for Russia, I didn't have to pay the import tax in Mongolia, only 60$ fees.
No problem getting out of Mongolia and into Russia.

If anybody is interested to have more information, I made a summary here:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/fro...golia-may-2014

Both on my desktop pc (Win7 and Firefox) and my phone (Android and Chrome) I get an "access denied" message, despite being logged on, when I click on the link. Does anyone else have the same issue?

Or maybe PE doesn't want me to see this info? :-)

__________________

TBS.com

Hi, it should work, I tried again:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/fro...golia-may-2014

On my computer I can see it.

Nope. Still doesn't work for me. I've searched the whole site and nothing.

Upon searching the "shipping section" (not part of the HUBB, but on the main HU site) I get some summary numbers

Paid at start: 1200
Paid at destination: 60
Recommended: Yes
Shipment date: Apr 2014
Shipment method: Truck
Distance from searched start point: 0km
Distance of shipment: 6675km

When I click the "more" button, I again get the access denied message.

I'm going to report this to Grant and see if he can get to the bottom of the situation. Having a section that people can't access seems pointless. Visitors won't bother visiting it and why would anyone bother adding information there.

Zimi, maybe you can post your PE/Tamm/UB experiences here on the HUBB too? I'm sure you'd be happy for more people to read of your positive shipping experiences. Hopefully it's just a quick copy/paste.

Well done on getting to Magadan. Your pictures on Facebook brought back some great memories! Are you doing a full Ride Report anywhere?

Greetings to the mighty Uwe too!

__________________

TBS.com

Hi Chris, very strange, I don't know why it works for me, Anyway, I will copy/past it here. Thanks for following us! I guess I don't have time to write a report, too much work. I have a lot of videos and will try to make a small movie... But time is my biggest enemy...

Cheers:


Dear all, here is my experience with the company Pan Europa that offers shipping from Tamm (Germany) to Ulan Bator (Mongolia).

Before the shipping:

Since 2013, I had a lot of email exchange with Mister König and always got quick replies.

There are different ways of shipping your bike. Usually you ship you bike with an ATA Carnet when you plan to ship your bike back home. This is the easiest solution. The custom work in Mongolia is done in 2-3 hours and it's cheap.

If you plan to sell you bike in Mongolia, or to leave it there for a longer period you need to pay the import tax. There are 2 different ways to import a vehicle:

- The temporary import of 1 year (tax is about 15.5%)
- The definitive import if the bike will stay in Mongolia (tax is about 25%)

Pan Europa usually only deal with people using ATA Carnet, as it seems the first choice in Germany for shipping the bike. So about the import, they couldn't really inform me on how it will be done once I get there.

Being a Swiss citizen, I can't send my motorbike with an ATA Carnet. In our country, the ATA Carnet can only be used for vehicles without number plate (race cars and motorbikes for example). So for me the only option was the temporary import.

Initially I planned to send a lot of stuff in the box with my bike, but Pan Europa advise me to send as little as possible. Every single part must be listed and if you remove the front wheel and the mirrors, they need to be on separate position in the list. For each position in the list there is a fee to pay. Needless to say, if you need to list every part or your tool box, it's gonna be much cheaper to take it in the plane. I heard as well from another custom that arrived in Mongolia one week before me, that there is an special import tax if you send oil with your bike. So better but it there, and it will be cheaper there.

I build the box to send my bike myself, because Pan Europa already rented all their motorcycle transport boxes. The transport costs from Tamm in Germany to Ulan Bator in Mongolia was 903 euro which I think is quite cheap for such a long distance.

As soon as the transport was in Russia, I received a daily update per email on where my bike was and how many days left until Ulan Bator. The transport arrived on time. I don't remember exactly but I think it took less than 30 days.


Finding Monex / Dealing with the paperworks in Mongolia:


Once I landed in Ulan Bator, the biggest difficulty was to find the Monex Office. There is no address and nobody knows where it is. I got help from Urnaa, one of the person working at the Intergam Oasis Guesthouse. She offen deals with bikers sending their motorcycle back home, she can arrange wodden crates for shipping, but in my case she was no sure. She never had this case so fare, somebody shipping the bike in Mongolia, going to Russia and not coming back with the bike.

There is actually 2 Monex Offices in 2 different places. They open at 9am. I hade phone contact with Gonnie who organized the paperworks for 2 bikers 1 week before. The German guy sent his bike with an ATA Carnet and it took less than an hour, and the Swiss guy, like me sent it without the ATA Carnet. It took him 3 days and he had to pay the import tax.

Gonnie told me to go to the port. It took us 1.5 hour to find the place. I saved the GPS coordinates, so make sure to put them in your GPS before your trip.
They made copies of my passport and motorcycle papers and told me to leave and wait for their call.

The next Morning around 11am I got a call from Gonnie, that the paperworks were ready and I could get my bike. Because I was exiting Mongolia the next few days and not coming back, he issued a special paper saying that I don't need to pay the import tax. I only had to pay 60 dollars fees for the paperwork.

I showed up again at the Monex Cargo and the opened the crate for me, gave me the papers, I paid the 60 dollars and it was over. It took me 2 days to get my bike. 2 Days later I was in Russia. Nobody asked me anything at the border, didn't even had to show the papers I got from Monex.

Advices:

If you plan to ship your Motorcycle to Mongolia, you need to count 2 or 3 days to get your bike through customs. So try not to arrive later than wednesday it possible, in order to avoid having to wait the whole weekend if for any reason it takes longer than 2 days.

Monex in Ulan Bator:

GPS coordinates of Monex Cargo: N 47°54.486' E 106°52.798'
Put these coordinates in your GPS as nobody knows where it is. This is the only place you need to go, first to give your papers and then to get your bike.

Gonnie (Gonnie is in another office, but he speaks english and will tell you what to do. You don't need to go to his office)
phone: +976 99 11 01 95
email: gonnie@monex.mn
website: www.monex.mn

Oasis Guesthouse:
OASIS CAFE & GUESTHOUSE - Home
Urnaa

Sorted - what happened is he made the post to the Shipping section, then later edited it - and when a post is edited or created there it needs to be approved, and I hadn't got to it yet.

It should be fine now.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Just my opinion about your problem in red....

klausmong,

sorry but on one hand you tell me it's not possibe to go from Mongolia to Russia with my bike if I import it in Mongolia, and Chris says it's possible.

I still have my swiss number plate and the bike is registrered in Switzerland. It will not be exported from Switzerland. Like Chris said, it's imported just to be cleared wih Mongolian customs.

in 2011, I entered and exit russia 4 times at 3 different borders, I never had any problem, only showed the paper of my bike and my passport. Why could it not do the same this time?

As long as I don't sell the bike in Russia I won't have any problems with the customs I think.

I know that if I sell the bike in Russia, I need to clear the custom and pay the import tax. I understand this. But I don't need to pay the import tax if I am just traveling in Russia and exiting again in Mongolia.

Now your bike is imported to switzerland
Then you import it to mongolia.
And you want to sell your imported bike ( in mongolia then ) in russia.

Why not import it to russia?

If you import it to mongolia and to sell it in russia, it makes no difference , you can also import it to China, or maybe Romania.

Wherever you import your bike, it is still nor cleared by russian customs.
and when you travel into russia with an mongolian bike, you still need to clear it, what is the difference if you import it from Mongolia or Switzerland?

I think, it takes you more time to clear it by customs and sell it then, than it takes to ride back.....

As I had to cancel the whole trip at the last moment for business reason last year, I am going this year.

I have an update about our conversations.

In Switzerland, it's impossible to make an ATA Carnet with a vehicule that has a numberplate. I could only make ATA Carnet with a vehicule without numberplate, and then it would be impossible to enter Russia, because I wouldn't have an insurance.

Just for me to understand:

Why do you need an ATA Carnet for Russia and Mongolia?

__________________
www.klausmotorreise.com

Hi! It's the company Pan Europa that ships the bike from Germany that recommend using ATA Carnet. It seams to work for Germany, as many did it this way.
The advantage of making an ATA Carnet for Mongolia, is that you don't need to pay the import tax in the country. If your bike is shipped to Mongolia, without a carnet, you HAVE to pay the import taxes. It's not the same as if you come in the country by crossing the border yourself.
We had already a big discussion about it last year, it didn't change.

I will update the thread with my experience this summer