Thats easy. I could pick five from each manufacturer

In no order of preference. And I'll stick to fuel injected bikes that can be bought for less than a new Himalayan. Otherwise the list will be 50 deep

1)Yamaha XT660 series (Although the 660R is closest to Himmy height) -
2)Honda CB500X
3) Honda Transalp 700
4) Suzuki V-strom 650
5)Kawasaki Versys 650
6)BMW F650 single (GS, Dakar, Sertao) or F650/800 parallel twin GS.

If you don't mind an older bike (which I believe are still far more dependable than a new RE) you could look at the:

XT600, DR650, XR650L, DRZ400S, Africa Twin 750, Transalp 600/650 etc.

I know I could get on my 25 year old Africa Twin and circumnavigate the world twice without it giving me trouble. There would be a mountain of dead RE's for the same trip.

Obviously, the problem with old bikes is that you don't know their history. So you need to buy smart. So if you're not overly confident of sniffing out a lemon, you should stick to something ten years old or less from the top list.

I would love to do a side to side Comparison with an XT660R and a Himalayan. They are similar in so many ways.

Comparing a Yamaha to a RE is like comparing a Rolex to a plastic watch out of a Christmas cracker.

Look at this on ebay. It's like new bike.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194498810...AAAOSw92xhxUmd

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

You might have noticed that since @markharf's initial intervention on this thread a further dozen posts have disappeared. I removed these as they were attacking other members (or responding to the attacks) and added nothing of value to the thread.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

I am posting a public apology. To all Himalayan owners that I have offended and upset on this thread by suggesting anything in the contrary that their bike isn't perfection on two wheels.

This apology is a result of a private message I received telling my that my post has been "Edited".

So..I have deleted my last post on this thread as it had been cut and edited by a Moderator. Sorry, I mean censored.

Because I compared a motorcycle to a cheap watch. Which apparently is now offensive.

It was deemed derogatory. As it might upset any said owners of said bike.

Perhaps members of this forum should think twice about the posts they now read. As they could likely changed or censored to fit the narrative of the moderator. RE owner ?

How can a forum be objective if opinions of bikes/equipment are changed and deleted by moderators.

I think I'll suspend myself from this forum for 30 days. Save the moderator the hassle.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

The Post Touring Ted refers to was edited in error, sorry, now restored. We don't edit posts without detailed explanation why, and much discussion.

"Censorship" is not our bag, keeping it all clean and enjoyable, and not allowing personal attacks is a tricky / slippery slope we try to negotiate with great care, but there will always be differences of opinion as to where the edge is.

In this case I (and other mods) didn't particularly like his comparison of RE and watches and Yamahas, but it was ok by me as it was his OPINION - and that's ok - perhaps offensive to RE, but I think not to RE owners. Or am I wrong?

NOTE: If anyone edits a post, there will be an "Edited" note below the post, and by whom, with an explanation of the edit.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Hello


To be fair, the RE is available NEW, most of the bike in your list are not available as NEW bikes (for example in the european market), and if they are, only for asking prices beyond any reasonble value of what you actually get in form of the bike (in the market of my country and some of my neighbours).


sushi

__________________
My RTW:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrXt660ztenere

I've owned three of the bikes on Ted's list

The Rotax Aprillia/BMW's have specific weaknesses in the water pump and charging systems. If you can find a low mileage one and have the skill to get into the mechanical stuff you can probably make a decent bike. By the time you've done you will have spent Himalayan money and still have an old bike. Get one that's been cooked by a previous owner and bodged back together and there can be a world of pain.

V-Strom's are top heavy and lardy as a Glaswegian take away. Despite the capacity I'd put these in competition with 800GS's etc. for road only trips and people built like prop forwards.

The CB500X is a bit of a lump. In its standard form it was not capable of doing UK green lanes except the driest and most road like. Fix it with shocks and a lot of Rally Raid stuff and you've spent a lot. You can't get over basic service problems like the spark plugs being near the sump with the rest of the bike piled on top.The slippy clutch and ABS without an off-road mode were very poor on steep gravel.

I've had a short ride on a Himalayan and wish I'd bought it instead of the CB500X. Performance was fine, no previous owner bodges, seems simple to live with. I've had Bullets which maybe conditions you for what is normal. I wouldn't rate my knowledge of these as a serious opinion though, 30 minutes round Wakefield is rough and uncivilised but not in a good way.

There are no right or wrong answers. If I was going to India I'd get the RE. For the UK, if I lived near any of the last bits of legal unpaved road I'd go with a CRF250. As I don't I'll stick with the V7 for now.

Andy

Well I've owned none of the bikes on Ted's list and the nearest I've got to a Himalayan is someone camping next to me with one. So I'm not in a position to make any substantive comment on the advantages or otherwise of a secondhand Japanese bike vs a new R.E. I suspect however that, given his background, Ted is, and as such his opinion is worth listening to.

Whether you agree with what he says is up to you and there's always room for a different opinion, but his post was - in my opinion - well argued and polite. Even the simile at the end was - also in my opinion, and given what he'd already said - appropriate and amusing. So I'm not quite sure why it was marked up as "2/10, see me" in the red ink of moderation. If there had been some direct ad hominem style attack or he'd used offensive language or anything like that, then yes, the post would have been inappropriate but I don't think his watch comparison fell into those categories.

I can understand why he's taken umbrage. It takes a substantial amount of time to write a post like that and why would you bother if it's going to be struck out via some kind of hair trigger moderation process. If someone doesn't agree with what he's written then arguing back publicly with equal passion and knowledge is the way to go so we can all benefit from the interchange. Getting rid of his post - even part of it - benefits nobody.

I don’t have an RE view to post but i do want say I appreciate both the insights that Ted gives as a bike professional, and also Grant’s post above. Thank you both!

£70 for a water pump kit (Many never leak and those that continue to leak are bodged by hamfisted mechanics) and £70 for a reg/rect (which don't go wrong once re-positioned). Then you're good for another 50,000 miles.

In my experience with RE, they're an old bike at 20,000 miles. With most parts failing and needing replacement in months rather than years. Assuming they ever leave the garage.

Age is irrelevant. Correct engineering, quality of components and skill of assembly is far more important than manufacture date.

It's not just with RE. It's the same with all budget bikes. This is why I get asked to change "factory fitted" wheel bearings on Hondas after 15 years and get asked to change entire motors on Chinese/Indian bikes after 12 months.

You're not daft. You know that too. But you're absolutely right. You can buy a lemon which has been messed with by a previous owner. So as always, due diligence is required.

Very kind of you to say so. And I absolutely agree. Polite debate and mixed opinion is the real value in a forum.

Cheers.

Moderation is thankless and difficult task. I know as I mod/admin many FB groups. So I realise that probably prematurely spat my dummy. And yes, I realise that I do post rashly and often passionately. It's just my way !!

I didn't appreciate my post being changed. I'm happy for my posts to be deleted if they don't fit the rules of the forum, but to be edited without permission is another story.

Anyway. I've had my warm milk and been burped. So all is well in the world again.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

@TouringTed

I could not agree more!! Bravo!

This bike is astonishingly beautiful, and dirt cheap. It is capable for sure - but far from the most suitable low budget bike. Even if the bike had bulletproof reliability (which it is far from being) - it is a poor bike in every performance aspect.

Estetics and the recycling of old tech for cost cutting purposes, simply takes away far more than it ads. In the same budget range, if one consideres bikes that has only been slightly used for a season or two only, you have sooooo many far more superior options to choose from!

As mentioned, itchy boots chose the Himalayan (much because if where she was in the world), and later opted for a Honda CRF after having gained tremendous experience.

A CRF300 Rally might cost a penny more than the Himalayan, and it is ugly as a troll (when comparing it to the Himalayan) - but it's value is twice as great! It will beat the Himalayan in every single reliability aspect that comes to mind, as well as every single performance aspect - and on top of that be more comfortable, practical and fun to travel on.

Why someone still shies away from fuel injected engines is beyond me. This tech is now ancient, tried and tested, and more bullet proof than a carburetor. Should it fail (unlikely), swapping parts is easy and not too expensive (if you are too worried, carry a spare). Combined with liquid cooling, it translates into; lower fuel consumption, more power, better power distribution, less engine servicing (in addition to not having to swap jets), reduced engine wear (improved longevity and reliability), and more.

As for air cooled. When you have to push the bike (heavy loads, rough terrain, steep hills, scorching heat, or what not) - and you start hearing that pinking sound (if you are lucky enough to catch it in time before your engine seizes)? When you know you are close to have the engine seize on you... When you know you are adding a crap tone of wear every minute... If you are so lucky to notice, do you stop for an hour to cool down, or do you ease off and push through "carefully" - saying your prayers and hoping for the best? Can you even ease off to get you up the final climb, out if the sand or mud?

A liquid cooled engine ,where you take steps to protect and maintain the system, gives more peace of mind. On a few bike models, the pump might be prone to fail (just carry a spare) - but on most bike models it is extremely reliable.

On most bikes the radiator and other parts is too exposed (simply add a protector).

If the bike gets close to dangerously hot hot, the injector will change the fuel mixture too cool the engine more. If that is not enough, it will come up on the display in time for you to save the engine from seizing up. All of this gives far more peace of mind than a carbureted air cooled engine.

The Himalayan is less than a relic from the past. In the rush to make a nostalgic and dirt cheap bike with curb appeal, they did a whole lot of senseless engineering - some which has been mentioned. I just wrote in another post about the knee indents on the tank, which really doesn't fit a human. It takes away fuel consumption and knee grip. The sole purpose is looks and being cable to recycle parts to keep cost down. The front wheel has both an upper and a lower fender. What for? The upper has no purpose other than estetics. It adds weight in addition for something for the side winds to act up against (impair steering). The entire bike is more or less designed like this. It is beautiful, but senseless.

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

Just for clarification - the Himalayan now has fuel injection (and has from the BS4 model) and has always been oil, not air, cooled. The engine is not derived from the Bullet series of engines and it was designed, from scratch, in the UK - as was the all new frame.

As always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

__________________
You will have to do without pocket handkerchiefs, and a great many other things, before we reach our journey's end, Bilbo Baggins. You were born to the rolling hills and little rivers of the Shire, but home is now behind you. The world is ahead.

Good clarification. I see how my comments are easily confused. The original post mentions that he ideally wanted an air cooled bike. I didn't read that as he believed the Himalayan to be air-cooled (though he might). It deserved a comment that air cooled is a novelty in 2022.

The Himalayan has been improved upon continuously in everything from newer tech to better reliability, now with Google nav onboard if I'm correct. But even if the engine and more was designed from the ground up, and it now has absand injection as standard, etc to comply with minimum legal stuff in Europe, etc, it is still very much old school and "just enough". Just my opinion.

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

Royal Enfield certainly seem to have responded in an appropriate manner to some of the issues that affected their early Himalayans and they have continued the development process with each version. In reality not all manufacturers have done this, and I include Enfield with their Bullet based bikes until recently - they seem to be receptive to acknowledging weaknesses by sorting them out and making the bike better.

Now that it looks like there could be a bigger engine with water cooling and more power for the Himalayan they will, hopefully, have retained the character of the original and not affected the balance of the different parts, so improving braking, suspension etc. Part of the charm it has comes from the way the different components work together.

As far as the novelty of an air cooled engine is concerned I have to say that I am very happy with my Moto Guzzi V85. It isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but I like it - and wouldn’t the world be boring if we all liked the same bike or even the same style of bike. Having said that, there is no excuse for cruisers.

__________________
You will have to do without pocket handkerchiefs, and a great many other things, before we reach our journey's end, Bilbo Baggins. You were born to the rolling hills and little rivers of the Shire, but home is now behind you. The world is ahead.

I love my classic air cooled and carbureted Vespa with 12HP and 10 inch wheels... enough that I opted for that bike over my Bimmer Dakar or my Yammie Enduro I had at the time - when I entered into the 9000 km Budapest-Bamako Enduro Rally, uassisted (after having ridden it half way through Africa once before). It made it to the finish line in Guinea Bissau in approximately 3 weeks - so proven capable. The bike is lovely. It is capable... a lovely piece of capable crap, but crap none the less. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
So, when there is talk about the Himalayan, I really do get it. But, when it comes to recommending a bike/tool - for any specific purpose what so ever (or multiple purposes)... for that amount of money - it simply doesn't make the list... any list! Even if we are talking about markets with poor selection of bikes to choose from, I'd be hard pressed. Let's say India, the mother of this bike, is also the mother of the KTM 390 adventure - which only costs a few pennies more. Now, I do own a KTM 390 Adventure - and it is mindblowingly good for it's price (but still a bit still to be desired in terms of ergonomics, etc). Still, for travel - if the Honda CRF is an available option (far more primitive and less powerful than the KTM), I would recommend that over the KTM that I own - it is just more suitable for RTW type stuff. But I would also recommend the KTM over the Himalayan (but with a new sprocket).

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

I have now owned a Himalayan for three years and driven over 12,000 km on backroads in eastern Ontario, Canada.
I previously have owned various Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki and Harley bikes of various sizes for 43 other years.
I would like to only offer my two cents on the topic of reliability and functionality.
The Himalayan has served me very well, only suffering a bad fuse once which the dealer replaced under warranty. Nothing else has broken or died.
The seating position is great and I upgraded to the RE touring seat after the first year which never puts my butt to sleep even after 3 hours. I also installed an iridium plug which immediately stopped the cold start stalling issues. Other than these items, nothing else has been necessary.
The bike performs very well and it's 24 bhp powers it up to 120kph at 6K rpm without issue. I don't ride freeways as I hate trucks anyway and don't need them to get anywhere I'm going. Gravel roads are no issue, the suspension never has been any trouble and the front brake which took a month to get used to is just fine. After three years the finishing on the paint and chrome looks brand-new and there is no rust. I have put on a replacement rear Continental 60/40 tire but the front still looks new.
All that to say, if you only want to spend $6200 Cdn on a brand-new functional motorcycle that brings a smile to your face every time you ride it, buy a Himalayan. If on the other hand, you think you need at least 6 modes of traction control, water cooling and at least 140 bhp so you can exceed the speed limit in less than a quarter mile, then there are dozens of bikes you can spend more than $12,000 Cdn at every dealer. When you can find one of the latter used it will still be more than a brand-new Himalayan with a 2-year unlimited mileage warranty. My personal brand of risk management says the Himalayan was an excellent purchase.