I'm after a few opinions , I've been a passenger to the Gambia ( west Africa) in a defender 110 van , been round Europe in my defender 110csw ( now double cab pickup, and I'm now after building a purpose built overlander , I just carnt decide wether to base it on a ex army sankey trailer and tow with my 110 ( I know my Landy is capable of it ) or do I build a 130 doublecab with a purpose built box on the back ?
I plan to use it for Europe to start with then go to Africa in it in a few years ,

+ 130 one truck easier to park in towns ect ,

- 130 once camp is set up no truck to go anywhere in

+ trailer , once camp is set up still have Landy to use to go round local towns

- trailer , difficult to park in small towns , and navigate round tight rural lanes

Please help

What would people recommend ?

Cheres Blayne


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I'd go for the 130 without trailer, and get a pair of folding bikes for local exploration.
More manoeuvrable, better fuel economy, more comfortable, easier overall...

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If its just two then you can base it on a 130 , forget a trailer , as they are a problem 90% of the time , both in snow, mud and difficult terrain. Single cab with a decent size living box on the back . Bikes as suggested, or even better electric bikes . If it was a bigger (load capacity ) vehicle then a small 125cc or so dirt bike. You will need to think carefully on build as its very easy to get too heavy too quick. definately dont exceed axle weights/total weight ! HTSH

When someone is able to build an trailer with electro engine for using it as 6x6 (2x together with 4x4) for the real bad passages - this would be nice

But back 2 topic ;-)

Do you wan`t to use the car as dailydriver in europe, does it have to fit in underground garages and so on?

You can look @ my Blog for an sample as full Dailydriver & Travel simultaneous requirement. I would do it the same way again for this dual purpose.



When you have the space for an additional "travel car" (or don't have to use city parkings) - you have many many options to discuss:







I have listed some solutions here: Trans-Africa: Welches Fahrzeug?

Maybe you should look also beyond your favorite brand ;-)

And never forget, that you can do near any trip cheap with any good 4x4 and a simple tent and some basic equipment. So don't exceed your "buildup cost" when you are on budget ;-)

And keep your weight so low you can - to avoid breakdowns abroad (and the legal stuff in europe).

I also like the trailer solutions who are available - and when you search in youtube "gall boys" you will see that you can do much which a trailer behind. But it is a limitation, specially if you like to drive abroad..

A trailer could also be a pain on the small dirt tracks in the europe alps - which the growing traffic because all years more roads get closed.

Surfy

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post above edited

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it's been done, well, something similar. Tom Sheppard and his military mates took powered trailers towed by 101 landrovers (possibly the toughest landrover ever made) into the desert in the 1970s, and it was a disaster. The trailer would push the rover leading to some very 'interesting' handling issues

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Thanks for all your replies , looks like the concuss is for a 130 , going to look at getting one and making a custom box on the back like this

Or look at getting a ex ambulance 130 for a camper style , just need to keep an eye on the web for a 130 chassis as a base to go with


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Is there just the 2 of you? If so, the double cab is a waste of space. I know - I have one. I think a 130 is the way to go, just use a truck cab, and have loads of space behind.

For the trailer idea, take a look at Sirocco Overland | Сирокко Оверленд | Solo Vehicle Dependent Exploration, Travel & Adventure

trailer is a really bad idea. A landrover lacks the power and drivetrain toughness to cope. The shock loads on your rear crossmember are massive. Off road the trailer will fly all over the place (frequently becoming airborne)and anything in it will probably turn to mush. It is highly unlikely that the trailer will survive the terrain in Africa. The effect of towing what is, in effect, an anchor, through sand means your vehicle will also probably not survive. Don't be fooled by the army trailers, while undeniably tough they are rarely driven off road for any length of time and never in anything like the conditions and duration you are likely to demand of it in Africa.


If there is 2 of you a 110 should be plenty, if not, your taking too much stuff. A 130 would give you sleeping room potentially and higher payload, but I would regard that as reserve rather than a licence to carry more stuff!! It still has basically the same drivetrain, engine and contact patch with the ground!

Further to my earlier post , if you are going to custom build on back then look at joining the single cab into the living box, as depending on how lanky you or other are the single cab can be a bit restrictive, this can also be useful as you can do a drive off if situation arises without going outside vehicle! , I had a 130DC HCPU 300tdi for a number of years , found 255/85 tyres a good choice, over the stock 750r16 , due extra weight of 130 over 110. JMHO

Trailers are best for South Africa holidays where you drive to one or two places, enjoy your holiday and then drive home. For day to day overland travel they would be a pain.

How many people? Surely a 110 is enough for one person? I have lived in one for 4.5 years of my life ;-p

What about these though, http://siroccoverland.com/trailer/

They're after doing the Road of Bones etc with their trailer.

I thought they were mad too but they managed ok, I'm really just throwing the cat amongst the pigeons here , saying it can be done.......

Road of bones - one road, not many people.

Africa - many crap roads, many people.

You can drive most places in most things. At some point you may want to enjoy it by having the more/most suitable setup to remove some of the headaches.

Surfy hit it on the head here, everyone spouts what not to do, most have not tried only imagined. Im not talking solely about people here but generally in these circles.

Im not getting into any debates either as we are still on the road and I have better things to do. As a bit of background we have just finished a 42,000km trip across Central Asia, Russia, Mongolia and Europe. We have towed on ice roads in the Arctic, Desert in Uzbekistan, BAM road in Siberia, across the Gobi following dry river beds etc.

Not adverse to a bit of offroad as we love greenlaning in the UK, We set out to enjoy our trip and take the road less travelled. We could have sat on the trans Siberian all the way to Vladivostok like some but thats not how we roll.

The trailer came about because we had a well prepared D90. It made more financial sense to take a trailer. The yanks love them, the Aussies too, so why not? It was a compromise yes, but the situstion dictated it. I see so many people wanting to do trips but yhink they cant because they dont hsve this or that, it doesnt matter, go with what you have!

I wanted to keep it light and tough so we bought a sankey with box body and extended A frame. It weighs about 1 ton loaded.

Europe - perfect on roads, ok in towns, parking in cities is sometimes a problem but you can get around this by camping outside and driving in. If your visiting lots of cities you should question why your overlanding. Ice roads were a bad idea, but it may have also been our tyre choice. I wont be doing Arctic Scandinavia with a trailer again, but we had little choice. Parking generally isnt a problem you just hsve to look out for the right space, takes a touch longer. Your all ready excluded from multi storey so it doesnt make much difference! If I can tow through central Istanbul at rush hour on a Monday morning, anyone can!

Aral Sea/Uzbekistan - sand here wasnt too much of an issue. On our own for 200km to reach the new coast line. Bukhara and Samarkand no issues.

Central Asia - No real issues here, the rough roads reminded us to secure everything inside. Towns, cities parking no problem as there are no restrictions like Europe and its less populated. No U turns necessary. Pamir Highway done also with Wakhan Corridor and 1 or 2 other off routes, trailer left the ground a few times. Kyrgyzstan we were rock crawling up to Altan Arashan in the Tien Shan, after a while I questioned the sensibility of it but we made it up snd down with no issues in low 1st and 2nd. With big rocks, mud holes and switchbacks any issues would have been the same for a lone vehicle.

Tried a remote track in the Russian Altai, but it was not possible. Having a trailer made no difference.

Mongolia - followed old Russian military maps deep into the Gobi. We went 2 days without even seeing a local! Following dry river beds we were often not even on tracks. Entry and departure angles tested with trailer and were better than a standard Land Cruiser which scrapped its way through a lot of situations.

Drove the BAM Railway service road. Bottled it at the Vitim bridge as we didn't know the conditions ahead and wether or not we needed to drive on the rail bridges. Forded big rivers, collapsed bridges and got some grest side slope action. Trailer no problem.

Road of Bones - Generally no trouble but the 4000km return to Yakutsk was a really crap road and the truck took a hammering. The final 1000k down to the trans siberian was the worst. As some of the rivets broke we got metal fatigue in the body which has fractured at the front in a few places. I blame the trailer spare wheel. We also cracked both headlights, smashed a side window and 3 big cracks in the screen. Blown rear shocks to so the trailer is the least of the problems.

Overall I thought the trailer was great. It afforded us the space to have a proper fold down kitchen, water tank and filter all within easy reach which made daily living a breeze. We also brought along climbing gear, packraft and a few toys which really made the trip. The short physical size of our setup meant we couldn't carry a lot and that is why it's designed like it. We are keeping the trailer for Australia so will see how it goes. A few things need redesigning but we think it suits our needs. For less than 2000GBP ontop of the D90 It made perfect sense. It allowed a couple in their early 30s to do a long haul overland trip. It also spreads the payload over 3 axles stabilising the whole setup which we were grateful for a few times when we flew into car size holes in siberia.

Compared to West Africa the routes we did were not really sandy. I dont think I would take the trailer up sand dunes for example, but for the majority of roads I think it would work really well.

If your starting from scratch it would be easier to go with a bigger vehicle but as time goes on your kit evolves. The trailer is just another accessory.

Sorry for the long post but I felt like some actual real world experience was necessary to put down.

G

www.Siroccoverland.com




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awesome trip griffdowg!

good to here a positive tale. Maybe the only ones you hear are the ones with a bad experience!!
I suspect a lot also has to do with driving style, I notice you said you were in low 1st and 2nd on the tougher bits. Maybe people driving too fast is one reason they have problems. Modern cars with a compliant suspension set up insulate the occupants from what they are driving over. This tends to mean they drive too fast, especially if they lack the mechanical sympathy to realise what is happening to the unsprung components of the vehicle. Meanwhile, as they sit in modern airconditioned suspended comfort, the trailer is flying around behind them smashing itself to bits!!

Despite it's coil springs, a 90 is a fairly bouncy place to be so maybe you were more sensitive to what was happening under the wheels so looked after the trailer better (or maybe you just built it well!)