Worth repeating

Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware

Because there is a steady, but thankfully small stream of people getting into trouble with their new purchase, I'm going to play Devils Advocate and post this on every "For Sale" section on this and every other forum I can find.
Directed primarily at the Americas situation, I imagine it will also be applicable all over the world.

Be very aware that buying a foreign-registered car from a foreigner in any country and/or state other than that of original registration is potentially a very bad move unless you fully understand the situation and fully understand the risks.

Yes, lots of people do it and I know it can be done, but there are cases where people have been stopped at the border and other cases where people have had their vehicles confiscated for irregular ownership transfer even after several successful border crossings.

Things to watch for -

Expired registration

Non-current roadworthy or smog certification

Fake License plates

License plates with year tags missing or incorrect

Fake documents

Supposed original Documents that have been laminated

Bill of sale drawn up 'legally" in the foreign country

Not possible to obtain legal ownership in your name back in the country of origin.

Your nationality different to the owners or the vehicle home country

Multiple blank PODERS offered or poder without all required stamps or your name missing

Any vague excuses for discrepancies in paperwork or situation

Any seller that makes assurances such as "She'll be right" or "No worries" or I've checked it all out and ..."

Any vehicle without a valid Temporary Import Permit or equivalent document

Any suggestion that valid Liability Insurance isn't available to cover you, the new driver.

Owner wanting full payment before it has crossed the first border

Current owner not contactable.

Vehicle not in legal roadworthy condition

Vehicle without all "extras" required in that country

As I said, it can be done but as the title states - if it goes wrong, it is your problem. If you find any or these items apply to your planned purchase then make sure they can be answered and fixed before you hand over any money. At the very least insist on retaining a substantial part of the purchase price until you get over the first border and into the next country with all paperwork and registrations in your name. If the current owner is 100% genuine then he will be more than happy to share the risks. If not, then now is the time to walk away.

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Tony
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totally agree with all of tonys 'watch out for' list.

One thing to add is the carnet de passage ( CDP )

many people will imply that a CDP can be 'easily' transferred to new owner, in theory possible but be careful, each CDP issuing authority can slightly interpret the 'guidelines for issuance' slightly differently.

Phil.

I bought Phil and Angies IVECO once they had finished their 8 years of travels from the UK to S America and all points in between.
For me Caveat Emptor wasn't an issue as Phil provided me with meticulously detailed descriptions of everything to do with the vehicle plus spreadsheets and POI lists - so between the two of us there were no surprises.

Not so for some others who buy vehicles overseas though.

No Carnets needed for Americas despite what some issuers claim, but what Phil advises is certainly true elsewhere.

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Tony
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Do you seriously expect a seller to say, 'yeh, don't worry about giving me full payment until you've left the country with the vehicle'!!

I sure wouldn't. You want the vehicle, you pay, then you get the keys and off you go, but until you've paid in full in cleared funds you aint having nothing!!

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

Moggy, ask yourself, would you trust a fly-by-night car salesman whose only concern is getting some money for his vehicle from some naive newbie before flying off never to be seen or heard from again - to be upright enough ensure that the buyer is fully aware of all the problems with buying a vehicle under these circumstances. Add in to that an expiring visa or TIP or looming flight out of the country and the situation is getting desperate so it is either offload the vehicle or take a big loss. Why should the buyer assume all the risks, especially given the very high number of vehicles being driven around with fake license plates and fake papers.

For the record, yes, I would expect a seller in these dodgy circumstances to accept a fair share of the real risks involved. One seller was happy to do it and why not. The other time, I was confident enough in the system that it wasn't necessary even though it was offered.

I have a copy of the official papers relating to the confiscation of one such vehicle, so it does happen.

On driveamerica forum, one bloke is trying to get advice on how to get a CA-registered vehicle out of Mexico. Papers are invalid, previous owner has flown the coop and he can't get valid CA documents unless he gets the vehicle and himself to California.

On HUBB S America forum is a similar story regarding getting a vehicle out of Argentina because the previous owner had fed him a heap of BS about how easy it all was.

I look at retention of part of the purchase price as a way of ensuring that the seller is on the up and up. Trust has to be a two-way thing and unfortunately, money is one of the few ways guaranteed to ensure that. I have no problems with the couple of transactions I have made, but I see no harm in trying to ensure that ALL buyers are similarly informed AND all sellers know their responsibilities.

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Tony
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I absolutely recognise what your saying as a buyer, and totally understand what you are saying about the risks buyers take and the need to let people know that, but as a seller, I would never allow someone to take the vehicle, with title, when I hadn't received payment in full. It's financial suicide and I think to recommend people do this is somewhat reckless.

It's not that different to buying any second hand vehicle. know the law, know what your looking at, know what your doing. You can get ripped off just as easily in the UK as in a foreign country. The only difference is in your own country you have a better idea of how the system works and what the paperwork involves.

It's why I can't envisage ever buying a vehicle from someone already travelling. I would always want to visit that person at their home.

Do you really want to risk all that money you have saved for your dream trip like this?

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

Yes, of course, and I don't hear of anyone having problems when they buy a vehicle in Canada or the US and then drive south. Obviously it is easier to do the transfer legally when you are right there in the original country so there is no incentive to try and cut corners..
So my cautions are directed towards the central and South American scene.

Young couple here in the campground driving a North American vehicle they bought in S America. Would like to sell it but found out all their papers are fake. Obviously papers were good enough to get over the border once, and maybe OK for them to keep doing that, but what about the next owner? Just the insurance aspects would be a worry. Insurance obtained on the basis of a false declaration is going to bounce if there is an accident. Ending up in prison isn't on anyone's holiday of a lifetime blueprint.

I'm strongly suggesting that buyers ask for this and suggesting that lack of agreement might be just one more warning flag that in combination with other niggles, suggests they walk away and look elsewhere.

Probably a bit hard for those who have never done this to understand the situation. Big plans, long time coming to fruition, enthusiasm galore, lack of vehicles to choose from, lack of money, lack of time, difficulty in checking it out in person, ignorance of the real situation regarding legalities, timeframe pressures, ego, etc etc etc all add up to people totally ignoring sensible precautions. Yes, their own fault but not all that surprising if they have always operated within their own familiar tightly-regulated system back home. No nanny-state down here to look after consumer interests.

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Tony
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Great advice mate, but be advised, I've been flamed for saying basically the same thing on this site (by someone trying to sell a pup, as it happened).....

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Land Rover D90
www.Siroccoverland.com | Follow us on Facebook

You will need to use Google Translate, but Permit Probleme bei Fahrzeugkauf in Costa Rica - Panamericana-Forum is another cautionary tale, still to be resolved.

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Tony
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