Balls. I'll miss it. Since I'm heading:

Buenos Aires
Iguzu
Salta
Uyuni
Cusco

Then down through Chile to Patagonia.

Might be able to catch the end in Rosario

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Right, need a bit more help with my rough routing.

Patagonia

It looks like the Carretera Austral is the best way (scenery wise) south. So I plan to take this from Puerto Montt.

Is Chile Chico the last accessible border cross for motorcycles into Argentina?

My aim is to get to El Calafate and of course see the glacier.

Is Perito Moreno the last place to get fuel from for this leg of the trip? I've read there's no fuel for nearly 400 miles, but all those reports were people heading to TDF.

Is there fuel in El Calafate?

Northern Chile/Argentina

Whats the most scenic way to get to Peurto Montt from San Pedro? Pop across to Argentina and Rta 40, then back into Chile after Mendoza and onto Rta 5, or just ride Rta 5 all the way from Antofagasta?

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One more border to the south of Chico. Passo Roballo. EVERYONE goes over at Chico. Dare to be different. Dirt road in reasonable condition and not too many washboarded sections. Lots of wildlife



and can camp amongst the natives. Nice scenery. 360 degree views





We went right to the bottom of mainland Chile to Villa O'Higgens where the road finishes at a lake a few km south of the town.





Trouble is, unless you have a bike and don't mind dragging it for 20km along tracks and provided the ferry to the bottom of Lago Higgens is running, then you have to backtrack and then head east to the border, but at least you can say you have been there and done that.

Fairly long stretches without fuel. Should be fuel at Villa O'higgens but sometimes run out and the fuel truck takes a day or two to get there. About 250km each way from Cochrane, then you have to go east from just north of Cochrane into Argentina to get fuel.

Our Spotwalla map for this is at
https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php...9549cdcb8b3743

will have to zoom in and maybe adjust the fill in the adjustments menu in the map title field.

Photos for this section at
https://picasaweb.google.com/1146117...rica2013CHILE# starting about 2/3 the way down the thumbnails.

And the first few in

https://picasaweb.google.com/1146117...HILEPatagonia#

This section also has the huge advantage of getting you into the swing of things further south.



Not too often you see waterfalls getting blown backwards, but get used to it because south, even the rivers get blown backwards uphill.



The Argentinian side is just as spectacular, but in common with the whole length of the Andes, considerably drier.





Don't run over the locals though. Not sure who would come off worse

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Looks great. Thanks for the info.

If there is no fuel though between Paso Rodolfo Roballos and El Calafate that's going to be huge problem, unless there is some immediately after before the border crossing on the Chilean side.

From what I've heard Perito Moreno is the last fuel station.

I'm on an xCountry with a 200 mile range, so would need to carry an additional 15 litres to get to El Calafate and that's if I can get fuel immediately after crossing in Argentina.

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There is a YPF station at Bajo Caracoles in Argentina but that is a long way into Argentina.
Closest fuel in Chile is at Cochrane (which is 25km south of the turnoff so would require a small backtrack) Nothing at the border except two small posts several miles apart.

Between them is 200km by most direct route (due east) or 250km if you follow our route southerly in argentina to lago posadas and then east to Caracoles.

Then south, fuel at Gorbanado Gregores - large supermarket and free municipal campground with free hot showers at Coordinates: -48.75439, -70.24328
Fuel at El Chaltern (big side trip) but great hiking in one of the iconic destinations of the area.





and then El Calafate (one "fancy" campground is at Coordinates: -50.337, -72.25916 WiFi, good amenities and restaurant. Can change dollars at dolarblue rate at restaurant in town next to the official Cambio (which gives only official rate)



Chile Chico might be your best route. Our route is pretty lonely.

Not in your plans, but one place we nearly came unstuck was going from Peurto Natales up to Torres de paine NP and then across and up to El Calafate. No reliable fuel supply anywhere along the route. Supposedly some for locals out of a shed at the border crossing, but we couldn't get anyone to admit to any being available.

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Excellent.

Are the YPF stations the government ones? I heard that since the price of fuel was fixed, most independents closed down.

With your co-ordinates It doesn't look like I'll have much issue. Unless somewhere turns up dry. Then I'll have to just hang out on the road and ask passers by.

The route can't be that lonely. It's just 200km back onto Rta 40. Now the 3 hours I spent on a detour close to the Algerian border when trying avoid a Moroccan checkpoint, that was lonely.

Thanks for the Camping info. Too.

What's the situation like on the rest (northwards) of rta 7? Plenty of (wild) camping spots I imagine, but villages to buy food, supplies, fuel?

P.S - when did you travel? Do you have a blog?

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No blog, just the photo albums linked in my signature. Just happy-snaps with as many captions as I can get around to posting. The trip maps are referenced from the photo albums. Crude but will do for when I am old(er) and decrepit(er) and want to revisit the past.

You might also get some current advice by posting on the South American forum as that is specific to the area.

We saw lots of motorbikes in all of that area and they obviously are able to get fuel. Saw a few getting pushed when the wind was too strong to ride.

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

regarding fuel availability, from Chile Chico to town of Perito Moreno then going south:

Until Bajo Caracoles the distance is aprox. 335 kilometers. In those 335 kilometers there is no fuel station. Next is in Tres Lagos.

The distance may sound manageable but the problem lies in two extra parameters: a) often the one and only gas station in Bajo Caracoles, as well as the one and only station in Tres Lagos, run out! After Tres Lagos, the only possibility is to refuel in El Chalten, west of Ruta 40. Or, detour to Gobernador Gregores long before reaching Tres Lagos.

This means that there is always a possibility to need to cover distances of either 460 kilometers (Perito Moreno - Tres Lagos), or 450 km (Bajo Caracoles - El Chalten), or at worst, 580 km (Perito Moreno - El Chalten) with one filling.

the 2nd parameter is the wind. IF you get caught in the infamous patagonian winds, and they are headwinds, normally you would expect your consumption to raise dramatically! So your range will suffer.

Chalten has gas station.
El Calafate is a very popular tourist hub, there is plenty of gas and almost anything you might need (camping gear shops, repair shops, supermarkets etc).

Note: above info is as of decmber 2012! That's when I did the trip, I don't know if anything has changed.

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MotoGreece.gr | personal blog | my G+ profile

GF and I have been to SA for a year - Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Iguazu, Bolivia, Ecuador, Colombia (10/2013 - 10/2014).

First off, I'd say: don't worry about too much stuff (everything) beforehand.
You VERY soon learn to deal relaxed with situations, as soon as you face them.

Fuel - you can get almost every 200-300 km, latest.
Do not just look for gas stations - also watch out for "se vende gasolina", painted on house walls. These are private people, selling fuel - and you can trust it, qualitywise.

Time - take your time! Don't rush! But you will learn that automatically ;-)

Decide, what is more important to you:
being able to say
a) "I've been here and there - did as much as i could in a short time"
or
b) "i took my time and REALLY experienced country and people"

When there, accept that "plans are made to be changed" ;-)

Ruta 3 (east of Argentina) is well paved and brings you quick north-south (or vice versa) - but is extremely boring.
Ruta 40 (west, next to the Andes) should be your choice in Argentina - both, paved and gravel.

Carretera Austral is super beautiful and most of it unpaved.
We did it from Chile Chico to north.

Glaciar is "cool" ;-) but if its "the only thing in the south", you wanna see...
You would have to ride the 40 south to the glaciar and same way back to ChileChico... approx. 600km each way...
...perhaps skip that and better use your time for other things further north, that are also absolutely worth to see...

Between Puerto Montt and SanPedro, nothing "really" special to see - except Valparaiso/Santiago, maybe. The "great" PanAm is boring and paved - but brings you (as the 3 in Argentina) quite quick from A to B.

San Pedro de Atacama, you can visit Geysers, Moon Valley and then accsess Bolivia (Altiplano) for the Laguna route (all offroad) on the way to Uyuni.

LaPaz is huge and interesting to see from the entry on the mountain - but then, you should continue to Coroico quite quickly (paved).
From Coroico, you can access the old Yungas road (reversed driving side!).
If you do THIS direction (uphill), the mountainbikers coming from the opposite direction (downhill).

Lake Titicaca is quite close (I'd suggest, to go via Copacabana - nice town) and you can see the "floating islands".
"Cheap" version on Bolivia side, "better" version on peruvian side.

From there, Arequipa and Colca are in 1-day reachable distance (depending on the road you choose).

Cuzco is veeeery touristy, but from here, you can do Sacsayhuaman, Puerto Maldonado Jungle trip (2 days to get there - might be too much for your plans), Ollantaytambo, MachuPicchu.

MachuPicchu - Leave the bikes in Hidroelectrica and either take the train or walk to Aguas Calientes (very touristy - better: on the way is Jardines de Mandor - hostel/campsite - cheap).

Further north would be i.e. Nazca, Lima, Canon del Pato etc - but i doubt, you goin that far.

Argentina - Salta, Quebrada de la Conchas
To cross from east to west (or vice versa), you have to cross plain, flat land.

East: Iguazu waterfalls are defo worth a visit (2 options: brazilian and/or argentinian side - both are great!).
But i agree - for your plans, quite a detour (timewise).

Hostels are cheap and you can park your bike in the lobby.

Camping out:
We did a lot of camping.
Chile, Argentina, Bolivia,... not a problem!
Either on official camp sites, or "wild".
Even near the glaciar, we found a beautiful campsite.

Be prepared for strong wind in Patagonia!

Weather:
Yes, there are certain times to consider (salar de uyuni under water, rain in yungas, cold in altitude) - but again, i say "deal with it, as it comes".
Better, plan your route regarding relaxed travelling, time for seeing things and spare time, to stay or fix bikes etc - and not try to follow "maybes and perhapses".

A possible route, i could imagine for you could be:

ARG
Arrival in Buenos Aires, then to the west - San Rafael (Canon del Atuel!) - routa 40 south - via Junin de los Andes - Bariloche - until Perito Moreno (town) -

QUESTIONABLE is
continue the 40 south to El Calafate (Glaciar) - back to Perito Moreno (town) - maybe, leave it

cross into Chile via ChileChico -
CHI
Carretera north until Chaiten (take ferry to Quellon, west) - then all north via Puerto Montt, Chillan, Santiago, Copiapo, Antofagasta, then SanPedro de Atacama - cross into Bolivia (Altiplano) -
BOL
Laguna route (laguna blanca, verde, colorada, Villa Mar, Villa Alota, San Cristobal) - Uyuni - Orouro - LaPaz - Coroico (Yungas) - LaPaz - Copacabana - cross into Peru -
PER
Lake Titicaca - Puno - Arequipa - Colca Canon - Cuzco - MachuPicchu -
then back south
Cuzco - Juliaca - Puno - cross back into BOL
BOL
LaPaz - Oruro - Potosi - Tarija - south-east to ARG (Aguas blancas)
ARG
Salta - Quebrada de la Concha - La Rioja - southeast via Cordoba to
Buenos Aires

Uhhh, now as i "re-lived" parts of our tour, this is quite a lot to cover in 4 months - that's why i added some "quick parts", where you can make distance without loosing too much time, but get to areas worth staying/spending more time
(like quick PanAM from Puerto Montt north, Cordoba to Buenos Aires...).

Border crossings: you do NOT need a Carnet!
But very carefully keep your two documents, you get (visa for person, visa for bike) until next border, where you "check out" and get 2 new ones at the new border.

Quite helpful are laminated color copies of your papers, so you have a backup in case of losing things and you do not have to hand out your original papers (not at border crossings, but at police controls, etc).

Water - you do not need to carry extra water with you - except in the Altiplano (you MUST drink a lot, to fight altitude sickness!).

Food - street food is defo eatable (nevertheless, you will face stomach problems - but the whole experience with different weather conditions, meals even in restaurants or self cooked, ... is all a bit new to our "civilized" stomach anyways, but will be over soon!).

Safety - in one year, we haven't seen a landmine, were just robbed once (being loaded and stupid - just be smart about it) and in general met super nice, friendly and supportive people.

Money - ATMs are almost everywhere, so do carry enough cash - let's say for two days - but not too much!

WiFi - Southamerica seems to be way ahead of Europe with that.
You find FREE WiFi at gas stations, McDonalds, Restaurants, Hostels,...
and in bigger towns/cities almost everywhere!
You can also get prepaid sim cards (i.e. CLARO), but WiFi should be sufficiente.

In bigger cities, (latest in Cuzco, BuenosAires, Santiago,...), you find tents, pegs, gas for cooker, sleeping mats, etc.
Speaking of cooker: I'd recommend a fuel cooker, to be really independent.

Regarding sleeping bags and cold temperatures:
Think about an inlet and/or a hot water bottle.

You always find supermercado, mini-mercado, fresh stuff market.
Same with mechanico (and if it is a guy in a backyard, welding stuff in a "wild way" - but they do miracles :-D !)

Right now, i cannot think of more, but you are welcome to ask anytime.

Cheers,
Marc

Thanks Marc, that's an extensive reply. Were you and your GF riding separately or pillion?

I've now got most of my rough route sorted out now (obviously it's just a guide). Should be almost bang on 10,000 miles. I'll post a link and make the GPX files available once I'm done in case they are useful for anyone else.

I've got from mid September until the end of February (or longer if I want) so I'm not concerned with time.

I don't think I'll be able to avoid needing gas at Bajo Caracoles. When they are out, is it typically a day wait or is it much longer?

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We were riding seperately - she on a 150 chinese bike, i on a 1200gs.

If gasolina was out, WE never had to wait longer than a day (and that just twice in 1 year).
...which is no guarantee - but should reduce fear ;-)

What kinda bike are you traveling on?
GF and you on one?

Two up on a battle ready xCountry, ready to tear up the ripo. As long as it's not too rough



Actually, it's not quite battle ready. On the rough stuff in Morocco the rear was bottoming out, so I'm having my shock re-sprung for the weight.

We've done some riding on farm roads both standing and sitting no worries. Sand and larger stones are more of a problem (as in not so much fun), but we're not too worried.

If it's too rough we'll head for smoother roads. Chocolate comes in handy for bribing the pillion.

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Perhaps too much bribery is why you now need stronger springs on the back.

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Tony
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What a bloody excellent reply ! Spot on

A month in and we're in Coroico after some fun on the Yungas Road.

Heading to Copacabana soon, and keen to find a decent place to stay.

Any recommendations?

Also keen on avoiding Juliaca when heading on to Cusco.

The trip is described in my blog link in the signature.

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