My wife and I will be leaving Frankfurt May 6 on our 2003 1800 Goldwing that has been shipped from Canada, headed to the south potentially across France, down the coast of Portugal into Morocco. Are we better off to head to Morocco the fastest way possible before it gets too hot and then make our way north as the summer approaches? Should we go through the middle of Spain to get there asap?.

I would love suggestions for places and roads to ride and especially suggestions about Morocco. We are considering a loop from Tangiers, Casablanca, Marrakesh, Zagora, Erfoud, Fez and back toward Tangier.

What about suggestions for the Burgundy and Bordeaux regions on the way. We will be in Europe until about the middle of July. We hope to go up toward England, visit our daughter and fly back to Canada from there. Generally we like to ride along the coast in a way that puts us on the coast side of the road. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

okay, here we go.... maybe not all info is applicable for you, but it is also a memory-dump for me ;-)

Time of travel:
It is a bit chilly now, and in mid winter it can be freezing even in Morocco.
France is crowded with tourists in July & August (mainly Dutch ;-)) and I always avoid this. Campings ware a lot cheaper in low season too!

France: I don't really like the west coast that much; think Bordeaux is a bit boring... but that may just be me. The east is very beautiful, also the Alps are really nice! I love the central massive, really nice.
- Peage is expensive, north to south is about 50 euro's per bike. You can easily avoid the toll roads and have an amzing ride (but a bit slower) on 'Route National', or RN. Nice roads, takes you through all nice little french villages.
- Cheapest gasoline is at big supermarkets, or hypermarkets. Huge difference with gasstations near the roads.
- Cheap camping: ask/look for 'camping municipal', that are non-profit goverment campings. Sometimes boring, sometimes surprisingly beautiful. Always cheap.
- On the south, where the Rhone goes into the Meditteranian, you can camp for free on the beaches.
- If you are in a hurry, from Germany (Dusseldorf) you can take a car/bike train to Narbonne, but that is expensive. From there, you can drive to Barcelona, and hop on a ferry to Marocco.
To give you an idea, we drove a few years ago with the car and bikes on the trailer from Luxembourg to Algeciras in 26 hours. Only peage, slow car though ;-)

Spain:
- Gas is cheaper here than in France
- Fastest route to the south is via the coast; peage. Cost is about 50 euro's per bike too.

Portugal: never been there.

Morocco:
- Ferry from Algeciras to Morocco is easy, there are plenty available and we payed about 110 euro's , two way for bike+rider.
- Border is easy, Morocco wants to stimulate tourism. European insurance for the bike also covers Morocco.
- The north is dodgy; just drive to Chefchouen (about 200 km's south) on a clear day, as you come from the ferry e.g. in Ceuta. Don't stop for people, they just want to sell you drugs. We really didn't like this part... Chefchouen is nice, from there on we loved the country and had great fun.
- Campings are nice, although you'll find them sometimes super basic. (put your tent on the parking lot... ;-))
- Moroccans are supercool people, hope you speak some French! They all do.
- Roads are good, can by gas everywhere. Easy on a big wing ;-)
- Don't forget to camp in Ouzoud at N 32.00.351 W 006.43.177. Say Hi to Paul and Renate for me; great people. Can also tell you everything you want to know about Morocco, so you might camp/slep there on your way down?

On my website (Far Away From Flakkee) you can go to the tab ' vakanties 'and check out our route and pictures. Any questions, feel free to ask.

* Hi,

I’ve come across this topic very late in the day but I hope I’ve got a few good tips to offer, at least as far as crossing Spain is concerned. Firstly, some of the advice you’ve had really is way off the mark, although I’m sure it was meant with the best intentions:

* This would be the journey from hell. Spain’s Mediterranean coast isn’t quite the ‘Wall of Concrete’ that is often described. Well not quite, although it has some beautiful cities such as Valencia and Cartagena, stylish resorts like Sitges and Palamós and stretches of wild and unspoiled coastline, the Cabo de Gata in the south and the Cap de Creus in the north, to name but a few, motoring down the coast offers a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, the national highway is almost entirely urbanized and horribly congested while the autopista merely offers you a fast ride past the ‘back’ of all the beauty spots, which, somewhat typically of Spanish geography, are grotesque blobs of hideous fringe development inland of the coast itself. If you went this way you’d regret four days of wasted life!

* This is more on track but for a few important errors: there’s no point in going to Barcelona to get to Zaragoza, you’ll pass through the most c9ngested region along the Mediterranean coast and then the busiest ‘corridor’ in Spain, i.e. the highways and autopistas between Madrid, the capital, and Barcelona, where all the trade goes. Not only that you’ll be doing a huge zig-zag, having gone well east of the Pyrenees you’ll then be heading almost due west to Zaragoza instead of south towards the Straits. So why not cross the Pyrenees over the Somport pass north of Zaragoza? It's one of the loveliest and the road on the French side is both in good condition and not very congested - somewhat of a rarity - and if the weather's bad, no snow in May but serious visibility issues in rain or fog, there's always the tunnel.

After the that the route to Albacete and on to the coast via Ronda makes great a deal of sense, but for the detour to Cuenca, which is way off the route unless you're gone round - or heaven help you through - Madrid. Instead, from Zaragoza head via Teruel and then Utiel (avoiding Albacete) Ciudad Real and on to Granada - but see below)

All this is based on passing through Spain as quickly as possible, which seems a waste as you’ll be avoiding some of the best scenery, and certainly the best roads, in Europe! If you plan to dally in Spain take a look at my guidelines to route planning on my blog, The Spanish Biker, But if you do have to pass straight through – and I’ll be disappointed of you if you don't find a way to stop over at San Sebastian, a serious ‘must do’ city break - then take the Somport/Jaca route described above and pick up the autovia there to Huesca and Zaragoza and onwards from there.

The hint about riding down from Ronda to Algeciras is spot on – a fabulous ride and Ronda is a good place to stay – but the while of the coast there is horrible so I’d try to ride as little of it as possible. But one worthwhile exception would be to get the ferry from Malaga and stay a night in that lovely city, the ferry port is right opposite the historic city centre so you won’t spend expensive holiday time lurking around for hours on some grotty dockside.

There are numerous detours you could do from this road alone plus some specifc little tricks – south of Zaragoza follow the original national highway as far as Teurel – this used to be a notoriously dangerous and horrible ride but now the traffic has gone it’s lovely – and almost completely empty! I don’t do specific route guidance but one itinerary springs to mind: stay your first night at Jaca (pronounced Haca by the way), it’s a lovely small city and a very good introduction to the peculiarities of Spanish lifestyle, like browsing for tapas while you wait to eat sometime after nine p,m.! Then follow the above route and stay your second night some way short of Granada at Cordoba, one of the three great Andalusian capital cities and by far the easiest to explore: the Mesquite really should be one of the Wonders of the World and you won’t find a better example in Morocco, not even Fez.

Coming back up though Portugal is rather off my patch, but I find that central Portugal is very poor riding, one village no sooner ends than another begins, whereas the Ruta de la Plata, either the original or the modern autovia of the same name, follow the border closely and you can pop over to see the sites - and eat and sleep more cheaply

If you do go that way then following the Cordillera Cantabrica through Austurias to the Picos de Europa is a 'must do' and , ideally you'll have time for that final break in San Sebastian - I really am jealous!

Anyway, enough of my rambling – Enjoy!

Simes

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Just to add to the info. My wife and I rode Roscoff-Saumur-Clermont Ferrand-Massif Central-Milleux Bridge-Jonquera-Valencia-Sete Aguas-Ecija [? West of Seville] Huelva-Faro-Lagos-Sao Bras de Alportel-Setubal-Lisbon-Serra de Estrella's-Zamora-Santander then the boat home to Plymouth. If in Algarve don't miss the Moto Clube de Faro, on the En125 a mile east of Faro town centre. The most fantastic bike club with an amazing atmosphere. Accomodation, showers, kitchen, all for the asking. Cheap bar and hot food, with a supermarket across the road and BP garage next door. If you need time out from the road - go here.

Some perhaps not so useful info. Bike is an 06 carburettor T100 Bonny with 30K miles when we set out. 19 tooth front sprocket/42 tooth rear. Givi A660 screen. Triumph K&Q seat. 45 lt topbox, Oxford throw over rear panniers, LIDL 10 lt pushbike panniers and tank bag up front. 54 mpg, 25 kg luggage. We rode 2 tanks/240 miles a day, on average, 16 riding days. Never set off before 10 am, lunch about 2pm, looking for cheap hotel from about 5 pm. Beer in hand by 7pm - never missed. Navigation by tearing pages out of an old road atlas. Spent £ 2K all in and thoroughly enjoyed it. Are we going again in 2013 ?
Marrakesh, Istanbul and Moscow maps are out right now.
And our combined ages are 118, how daft is that ?

A first post, so is the word to use


I have to say that I had a great trip around BC and Alberta quite a few years ago with excellent memories of your neck of the woods with its' big wide open spaces.
You are used to those big spaces, so you will find Europe pretty crowded in comparison.
But, you really need to dig into the threads that are in here, especially under "Morocco" and "Europe"; there you will find lots of information and ideas for riding - after that you will be able to ask more specific questions, or just go with the flow as I did in Canada. That is not a bad way of getting about because you will be outside the main holiday season if you do finish before mid-July.

+ here's another good source of information:-
Morocco Knowledgebase

I hope this helps in your thoughts and plans.

ps Don't discount Germany in the late spring; the Black Forest for instance.

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Dave

black forest is nice, but I have only been there after driving through the Alps... then it is a bit boring I think ;-).

The Alps are amazing; especially the Swiss part of it. Not dirt on the roads, amazing pavements... really nice for touring. The French part is nice too (and Italian), but I thought they were not as amazing as the Swiss part of it.
Again, on my website you can find pictures of this trip too; might give you an idea!

I agree that the Alps are good to see, and to ride, but they are not comparable with British Columbia which just has so much more "scale".
Gopdebeek is coming from that home area to visit Europe/Maroc.
Hence I still think he should read into what is on offer in his areas of choice and the HUBB is a good place to look. In his shoes/riding boots & with the time he has available I would also head to Maroc, and he is starting out from Frankfurt.

Yep, central France is worth a look - the Massive Central for its' extinct volcanoes, + the Vercors region is worth consideration.

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Dave

@ Dave: yeah, also other people read these posts.... thought it could be interesting to give some more info than asked for ;-)

France: I love it, and think you shouldn't drive 1 meter onto the Peage unless in a super hurry. And the Alps: I don't know BC, but I love the small scale agriculture you can witness from various small campsites... just people with a few cows; amazing that that still exists in modern Europe! That 'cosyness' is pretty special for the Alps I think, and gets better in the south.
If you don't mind driving hairpins on smooth gravel, google a bit on 'Tende' and 'Col de Tende'... you'll get what I mean ;-)

Good points!
Yes, nowhere in the Alps is especially remote, and you touch on one aspect of that region which is distinctly different from the Rockies. So, yes, I wouldn't write off the Alps as a region for someone visiting from Canada, assuming that he and his wife haven't been there previously.

Neither of us knows what Gopdebeek (doesn't that name sound Dutch!) wants to actually achieve with his journey - cultural, scenery, riding routes (most likely from the OP) etc.

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Dave

The trip you are planning was exactly part of what we did last year.
To see it visit us at Two Wheels move the Soul

We left April 29th not May 3, but had great weather thru France, Spain and Portugal and got the only rain on our trip in Morocco.

Don't worry about heat at the time you are travelling and leave Morocco until you have grown accustomed to your travel tastes.
Spain will be a bit more difficult culturally than France, Portugal different agin, and then Morocco, wow, very different.
To cross into Morocco you have several choices, we crossed over after doing Spain and portugal, again consult our blog for our route, and we crossed at Algericas Spain, and we returned from Tangiers Med port thru Barcelona to Genoa Italy. It was actually far cheaper and more time effective than driving the bike.
Hope this helps, and I can share all kinds of stuff with you.
Do Morocco east to south to west then back north otherwise you may not do it all.

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Brian & Sandra Smith
Visit us at:http://vstromadventures.blogspot.ca

Hi, I m a portuguese traveller and if you want to discover the non touristic part of Portugal, and for me the most amazing , go to the North East (Tras os Montes) starting from Porto, going up the lovely road along the Douro River. In Tras os Montes you know how was Europe some centuries ago! Good people and food

I Augoust all emigrant came, so it s not a good time to go there.

In Marroco I love the western Sahara. If you go down a bit further till Tarfaya, you ll discover a new Marocco!

CHeers from Cairo

Carlos

Not 2 late trip (father and son roud Africa on a Renault 4L)

Indeed the Alps are very nice. I travelled last year over the Route des Grandes Alpes and it was very beautiful. I'm planning a new trip through Spain and in the north the Picos de Europa are very nice too only the area is not so big.

If you can imagine riding in Arizona or new Mexico, that's what Spain and Portugal is like.
Difference is they speak a different language and use different money. But more or less the same. With a coast line and the sea.
That's it.
John933

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To buy petrol in Europe. Pull up at station. Wait. Get out a 20 Euro note, then ask someone to fill up the bike. Give person money. Ride away. Simple.

Hi, we took our first offroad trip from UK to Morocco last June (bit of a road-test). Great drive through france (it always is) without using Autoroutes (expensive tolls for car) and plenty of camping - just turn up without booking in most villages away from main tourist spots. Crossed into Spain over Pyranees south of Biaritz. N Spain very nice - from Madrid south to the ferries for Morocco is dull, flat, dusty, all-round pretty miserable. No camping to speak of, some reasonable hotels.
If you go to Morocco (highly recommended - fantastic people generally, marvelous countryside, facinating towns) best bet is definately Tanger Med port (brand new, quiet, few touts, fast). Agree with previous comment - get to Chefchaouan for first nights stop. Northern area can be beautiful in Riff Mountains but found the people pretty pushy and constantly wanting to sell us cannabis.
Chefchaouan very pretty mountain town with a bright blue painted medina. Quiet campsite just above town, hotels in town.
After that, Fez facinating, Meknes smaller and quieter, we found Marakech a bit of an overload for the senses (but worth seeing at least once).
Without doubt the best part of the month we spent touring there was either in the Atals mountain ranges (magnificent views which vary every valley you enter, VERY friendly people, basic but reasonable camping and lots of Augerges) or the desert areas - Merzouga (stay at the Panorama Auberge, on the only small, black hill overlooking the dunes - cheap and friendly, great food), Tafroute (v pleasent, 'African' style savanah's, fantastic rock fromations). Most places south of the Atlas are basic but well worth the visit - it really does feel like another world but (once again)very friendly.
Other than that only advice I would give is avoid Agadir; windswept, 1980's style package holiday resort. Head 100k up the coast to Essouria - lovely 'Portuguese' fishing port.
Finally, fuel available pretty much everywhere, food good. Banks / ATMs really only available in the bigger towns. Many people speak basic English but most speak French. Increadibly welcoming / helpful and not seen may tourists over the last 18 months.
On way back we couldn't stand the misery of driving through central Spain again so wandered along the coast of Portugal and in and out of the mountains that seperate Portugal & Spain until we got far enough north. First time in Portugal - very nice.
Sorry it's a bit of a rambling message. Have fun (we did), about 8 weeks in all.

Hi,

I did a similar route through Spain, Portugal and Morocco this summer. If you are camping, here are a few of my best records on locations that I will use on all future trips:

Portugal:
1. Via 19 Overland is run by Marco Rocha, he is very friendly and very helpful, local knowledge and tips on routes et cetera. A great stop for a coffee with a friendly local about 20 minutes below Porto.
2. Quinta do Pomarinho campsite is absolutely beautiful and the best campsite we found in Portugal. Perfectly positioned for overland travels. Run by a Dutch couple who firmly leave all stress at the door.

Spain:
1. Cross from Algeciras into Tangier Med. The entrance into Morocco is absolutely painless and takes less than 40 minutes. Don't forget you will need 70 EUR to buy local vehicle insurance. The Algeciras port is junction 112b of the ring road.
2. Best ferry tickets to cross can be purchased behind the Carrefour at junction 109 in Algeciras.

Morocco:
1. Stay the first night in Chefchaouen. Its a couple of hours from Tangier and a memorable first night in Morocco.
2. The municipal campsite at Rabat has no security and has hyperdermic needles - avoid if you want to keep your car/ bike, wallet, passports etc.
3. Try to arrive in Casablanca in the morning, when you can get into the Mosque on a visitor's tour. As the 2nd biggest mosque in existence (only to Mecca) it is testament to the determination of man. No campsites in Casablanca though.
4. If staying in Marrakech, stay at the Relais de Marrakech. Its the best one in the city and 10 EUR to the city centre.
5. Zagora - camp at the Camping Sindibad and have dinner at the Auberge Chez Ali. If you have a 4x4, go to Iriki Garage, run by brothers Said and Aziz. They are the best mechanics I have ever found, including the UK.


Good Luck! tobybt