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19 Feb 2011
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Form in English & Spanish against police corruption
I am attaching a form (in Spanish and English) which is intended to discourage dodgy cops making trumped-up charges.
I haven't used it myself, but it was passed on to me by a couple I met recently in El Salvador who are driving a van. I thought it was an intriguing idea that might just work if all else fails and your charm runs out.
I have tweaked it slightly ('british embassy' instead of 'dutch' in the original and 'vehicle' instead of 'car'). I don't know where it originated, but I am hoping that the author is happy to share it.
Mark
Anticorruption document.doc
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19 Feb 2011
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Clever !!
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19 Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
I am attaching a form (in Spanish and English) which is intended to discourage dodgy cops making trumped-up charges.
I haven't used it myself, but it was passed on to me by a couple I met recently in El Salvador who are driving a van. I thought it was an intriguing idea that might just work if all else fails and your charm runs out.
I have tweaked it slightly ('british embassy' instead of 'dutch' in the original and 'vehicle' instead of 'car'). I don't know where it originated, but I am hoping that the author is happy to share it.
Mark
Attachment 4339
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Looks like a guaranteed way to get laughed at and an increase in a fine, IMO :-)
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19 Feb 2011
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There are two phrases in here which raise an eyebrow:
1: "I haven't used it myself"
2: "I don't know where it originated, but I am hoping that the author is happy to share it"
My suspicion is that if you arrive at a situation in Central America (or indeed London's North Circular) in which "all else fails", and your "charm" has "run out", this will not be the miracle sheet of A4 that makes everything alright.
On the other hand - give it a go and let us know what happens!
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20 Feb 2011
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Ok, first if you committed an infraction just pay it and be done. You broke the law, now pay the consequences. If a person from a Latin American nation broke the law in Europe, you would expect them to pay the fine and/or be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. You would expect and demand nothing less than that.
However, if you have been stopped needlessly or without just cause, then it is a shake down. Refuse to pay anything. If you do you are supporting the corruption in the system.
Way too many people are way too fast in expecting a cop to be corrupt and don't even let the cop offer you just a warning, they jump all over him/her and make them nervous and angry. It is their country, you are the visitor, you made the decision to enter it and you must abide by their rules. If you are patient, courteous, and have not committed an error you will likely be rewarded with nothing more than a delay and some debate between you and the cop. Start whipping out a camera and taking pictures of the cop and filling out a false form and you are antagonizing the cop. How would you expect a cop in England to react if a rider from Central America began arguing, taking pictures of them, and filling out some false form?
In the end it is up to you to decide to become either part of the solution or part of the problem. Corruption exists because riders will pay and you are not doing any favors for the next rider passing through. Start an argument with a cop in Latin America and you better be prepared to see it through in case the cop calls your bluff instead of him calling yours. That form will make handy toilet paper in the local lock up.
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20 Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike
Ok, first if you committed an infraction just pay it and be done. You broke the law, now pay the consequences. If a person from a Latin American nation broke the law in Europe, you would expect them to pay the fine and/or be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. You would expect and demand nothing less than that.
However, if you have been stopped needlessly or without just cause, then it is a shake down. Refuse to pay anything. If you do you are supporting the corruption in the system.
Way too many people are way too fast in expecting a cop to be corrupt and don't even let the cop offer you just a warning, they jump all over him/her and make them nervous and angry. It is their country, you are the visitor, you made the decision to enter it and you must abide by their rules. If you are patient, courteous, and have not committed an error you will likely be rewarded with nothing more than a delay and some debate between you and the cop. Start whipping out a camera and taking pictures of the cop and filling out a false form and you are antagonizing the cop. How would you expect a cop in England to react if a rider from Central America began arguing, taking pictures of them, and filling out some false form?
In the end it is up to you to decide to become either part of the solution or part of the problem. Corruption exists because riders will pay and you are not doing any favors for the next rider passing through. Start an argument with a cop in Latin America and you better be prepared to see it through in case the cop calls your bluff instead of him calling yours. That form will make handy toilet paper in the local lock up.
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haha. This is just not reality in a country of many laws but few rules. I was pulled over in Mexico for doing something back there somewhere in some town I just left. I never went back and looked at the video to see what it was, if anything. But they wanted $3,500 peso to resolve the issue. In our 'home' countries that you compare to, they have fixed amounts for the crime, they have an appeal process, and they don't take cash. You are comparing apples to spaceships. I would never pay a penny to a cop on the side of the road. If he wants to haul me in to the station and make if official (maybe they have their own document) I am good with that. That will happen oh, 1 time out of 10,000, which I think goes a long way to the corruption theory. But what do I know, I am so stupid I ride a motorcycle.
but I do luv ya MikeMike, and I am sorry I missed you this time around.
Last edited by GR8ADV; 20 Feb 2011 at 08:22.
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20 Feb 2011
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I think MikeMike is right on with this.
I have been shaken down quite a few times, but I have never argued or acted like an asshole. I just told the cop that I couldnt pay him. I was polite and even friendly.
I have been stopped for riding like a complete hooligan as well, even outside of local custom. I take whats coming to me. I tell the cop that I know I screwed up and whatever the law says I have to do, I will do with no argument, lets go to the police station or the jail and sort it out there.
In that case, usually, a warning, a smile and handshake have me on my way.
You do not want to get into a pissing match with a cop, thats just stupid.
OTOH, I dont mind the corruption and shakedowns. At most its a couple hours of enjoyable banter to spice up my day. The corruption is way worse for the locals than it is for us foreigners.
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20 Feb 2011
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Just to clarify, my point is exactly that. Don't pay bribes. If the fine is inflated and you appear to have no options then it is the cop who is forcing the issue and not you.
For the record, I don't pay and won't pay. My problem is that if I pay just once, it's finished because I live here and they will never let up just like jackals surrounding wounded game!
GR8 is right about the situation where you have a not only corrupt cop but a total criminal as well. I've never been in that situation and I think that situation mostly develops when they see the plate from some other locale.
I've never had a situation where I couldn't politely hold my ground and not pay. Luck? Maybe, but my point about the situation in other countries was directed at those who always opt for the "pay your way out" aka mordida option.
GR8 see you next time through.
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