I'm posting this review of Around The Block Moto Adventures (ATBMA) as I have not had the greatest experience with this company or Toby Shannon. There are only one or two other neutral/negative reviews out there, but i don't think they are fair or lay out the facts clearly enough. Also, I know some people have had positive experiences with this business. From what I've read Toby seems capable of organising and leading tours (possibly to the detriment of the sales/buyback side of his business). But my experience buying a motorbike Toby has "prepared" has not been wholly positive.

Toby makes many claims on the website about prepping the bikes for your South American adventure and improving the quality control on the cheap Chinese bikes. In my experience his quality control seems to be lacking. These are the problems i found with the bike:

• Loc-tite not on any fasteners at all (except 2 headlight mount bolts, which were different on left and right sides, i suspect because one vibrated out and a previous owner replaced it and added loc tite)
  
  *Some fasteners missing from day one
  
  *Engine oil over filled. Sump plug and all filters missing washers and felt too firmly torqued.
  
  *Low quality fasteners (ATBMA claims to replace any low quality fasteners)
  
  *Stripped thread on crash bar mount
  
  *USB charger not wired properly - bad connection means i have to push down on the wires to maintain a circuit. Additionally the part is very cheap and low quality. There were also two fuses of different power ratings in series, and both buried under 3 layers of electrical tape.
  
  *Gear lever advertised on website not fitted
  
  *Hopefully all the other maintenance that i can't easily check has been done, but my confidence has been shaken by the above

Toby says he has spoken to his mechanics and this shouldn't happen again.

Additionally i don't believe his communication is up to scratch (both via email, and the information on the web page).

I requested some custom pannier frames. Toby asked for dimensions of my bags, and I replied with the max XYZ dimensions. He replied shortly after saying “[I'll] mock up some possibilities and take some photos and you can decide on the angle, etc”. I emailed a couple of weeks later asking for an update and he replied with some photos of the welded frames and a bill. From the photos it was immediately clear the frames were too big, and that proved to be the case 2 months later when Amy had bruises covering her calves from where they were hitting her. We had to pay Toby for the clearly problematic frames and then hire someone else to chop then up and reweld them with more sensible dimensions.

The other area which was lacking was Toby's suggestions that the bike would be ready to cross borders, without any mention of the realities of the situation. It's actually technically illegal to cross borders as a foreigner on a Peruvian bike without a carta poder. Admittedly it seems to be, for the most part possible, but was not a smooth experience for me, which Toby did nothing to assist with (any help at all figuring out how to leave with a carta poder would have been tremendously valuable). He has said he has come (/is coming?) to an arrangement with customs to make this process smoother.

On the same note, when buying a “made-new” bike there is no mention that any fines or customs problems which the bike has accrued from previous owners will stay with the bike. No amount of changing oil or greasing bearings will solve this. My experience involved having to mess around with the customs for 4 days (ie 4 days mostly spent in a customs office). Toby did help put me in contact with the previous owner, which did allow me to provide the customs agent with some necessary information.

Admittedly, regarding borders/customs, i probably should have been more aware of these risks. However I think Toby should make the risks more clear to prospective customers.

Other things:

• He says he sends you the ownership documents, but instead told me where to go to pay for them and get them printed, which entailed navigating the Peruvian "DMV"
  
  *The tyres were low quality and the front was fitted backwards “for rainy season”. I feel like an idiot for not questioning him on this at the time as it is a ludicrous suggestion. If you fit it the correct way round you get more grip when braking and it doesn't wear out as quickly or with a worrying wear pattern. Toby's argument is it reduces the chance of the front wheel washing out in cornering, but personally (even if this were true) I'd rather go a bit slower round corners and have more braking power when i really need it.
  
  *He will try to sell you a coach ticket from Lima and charge you a 50% fee for the privilege. This felt cheeky considering i had just sent 1000s of dollars. (I recommend using the "redbus" website and getting the most expensive ticket for 33% less than Toby's offer).

Toby has at least responded to my emails, but only offered excuses in return, not even so much as an apology, or, in the case of the mechanical problems, any admission that his business may have made any mistakes.

Finally, I know of one other person who's had a similar experience, both regarding mechanical competence and border problems. I can post some of the details if people would like them, but they said they didn't really want to get involved with this review.

Admittedly i don't only have complaints, so for balance i will include a few positives:

• The bike was pretty much ready when i arrived in Huanuco, only the USB charger i had requested was not fitted but they did that the next day (albeit poorly)
  
  *The Peruvian "DMV" offices aren't the easiest places to navigate, but with ATBMA it all went pretty smoothly
  
  *The buy back thing is useful. The other guy (who i mentioned had problems with his bike) has taken it back to Toby and as far as i know he will be getting the full amount back. Additionally, the “selling” process is again very simple. Because Toby's selling bikes so far above market rate, if you do buy a bike off him the only way to recover a good proportion of your initial outlay is to sell it back to him*. For this reason, and the added simplicity, I intend to sell my bike back to Toby, so hopefully his business doesn't suffer too much from this review. (As an aside, I do wonder if the buy back agreement does something to reduce the neutral/negative reviews that get posted on the net about his business).
  
  *The custom racks were well made, even if they were too big. I had the crash bars modified as i didn't fit, and that was done very well and in reasonable time.
  
  *Toby gives you a “welcome” talk. It felt a little rushed but there were a few useful tidbits i learned from him.

To reiterate. I know a lot of people have had good experiences with Toby, so he must be doing something right some of the time. With me though, things have gone wrong and Toby hasn't impressed me with his response.


To summarise the above: If you are buying a bike off ATBMA for the purchase/buy back scheme i think it does make sense. If you are primarily using them for their quality control or mechanical "expertise" I'd strongly recommend considering all of your options.

Tags for SEO:
Around the block Moto Adventures, ATBMA, purchase and buy back, Toby Shannon, aroundtheblockmotoadventures.com, charapashanperu


*In b4 toby says he facilitates resale and doesn't actually buy the bikes back. Whenever i have mentioned "buyback" (quoting from the website) he always mentions this. Toby, I know what the deal is, I'm just using your own lingo.

Was chatting to another traveller last night who had an oil change done by Toby's chief mechanic, Jaime about 2 years ago. The oil didn't even reach the sight glass. So that's 2 people that I've met in person, by chance, who's Motos were also under/overfilled with oil from ATBMA. I'm no expert but there seems to be a pattern forming.

I don't know about Toby's mechanic, but....I was riding somewhere in SE Asia on a rented 250 and stopped into a shop to have the oil changed. The oil filler plug is labeled, very reasonably, "OIL" in raised letters. The mechanic read that as 01 Liter, and would not be talked into adding more oil based on the (empty) sight glass. We got the owner involved, and argued it back and forth in mutually unintelligible languages. Finally I prevailed.

I never trust anyone, anywhere, to give me the right amount of oil. I check, make sure it's full, run the engine for a few seconds to distribute the oil, then check again and ensure that it's full. This is just standard operating procedure, particularly in the Developing World, where proper procedures are often considered mere suggestions.

Similarly, many, but not all, of your complaints seem like Developing World issues. You didn't understand some of the border-crossing issues; Toby seemed in a hurry giving his intro talk; those custom racks needed some modifications; he marks up bus tickets for reselling to you. Some could as easily have been described in positive terms: Toby gave a good intro talk despite being rushed; he had custom racks made in advance to suit my luggage, although they did need some modifications on the ground; he will purchase bus tickets to suit your plans, selling to you at a premium, etc.

Other complaints seem very appropriate: fastener issues (although no worse, from the sound of it, than my KLR!); unpaid fines which run with the bike, not the owner; incomplete information provided about shifting customs procedures. The inclusion of so many details makes it difficult to extract the important stuff--something which is also true of my own writing style on web forums.

More on-topic, Toby has obviously viewed your complaint (identical on another forum). I'd be interested in hearing his response, along with learning how the buy-back portion of your trip goes.

Hope you're having fun down there!

Mark

Mark,

Just biding my time while the other 300 happy customers put in their two cents....

__________________
http://www.aroundtheblockmotoadventures.com/
'We build the bike (in Peru) for your Epic Ride of South America.'

Tobi, if I had sent you lot of $$ I would be very preoccupied. Will I send you my $$ knowing that your business short someone and you don't seem to care?

Which Tobi are you?

Mark, perhaps you are right regarding always being slightly wary with mechanics in less developed countries, now i do pretty much everything, excluding fabrication, myself.

The reason for the wordy post is so i can cover everything, that way people can make their own judgements based the actual points. I don't think any prospective customers will be too fussed about having to sift through it all. I don't think any of the points individually is a particularly big issue, but they add up.

Also, yes I'm having a great time. My Spanish is really coming along now so I'm meeting more and more locals

Toby, i know you've got other happy customers. I think I've met/spoke to about 8 people who've had an encounter with your workshop. But, as i've said, 2 of those weren't impressed.

I will also add, the bike hasn't really given me any major problems in 19k km. Its impossible to say how much is because it's a good bike and how much is because of the prep work described on the website (he says he changes fork fluid, greases bearings, and other things which are not trivial to check).

My gut says it's the bike more than the prep, as the experiences on the internet are generally exceptionally good. The only RX3 rider I know who has had problems had put on about 70k miles, at which point a valve went through the piston. Apparently he was on top of valve clearances.

CW-

I guess I'm a bit of a repeat customer for Toby. I bought a Honda Tornado a few years back, and have his shop store and service it. My wife also rented a Chinese moto last year, which did present some problems.

My experience with my moto is included in a ride report I've kept up over the three trips to Peru at https://advrider.com/f/threads/leavi...eyond.1124497/ There is both good and bad in terms of how trouble free my moto was. In the end, it's the trip that's important, and the rare troubles with a moto can become a positive part of the trip because of how helpful folks can be to a gringo traveler. I tend to travel with a flexible schedule and attitude, vs some (not suggesting the OP) who have a more rigid schedule. Problems and issues become a more positive experience with this attitude.

My impression of China motos: Not of the quality of the Honda manufactured in Brazil. The one we rented had weak brake issues. Jaimi, chief mechanic, told me that the China motos are not the same as Japanese motos. They are also a fraction of the cost. Take it with the territory. They do sell and rent Zongshen, which has a following here in the States. While discussing China motos, Jaimi thinks of the Zong as the best of the China motos.

The shop has always gone out of their way to correct things whenever I've had problems. Toby is also an unbelievable resource for contacts and as a in Peru contact. He has good advice for routes, places to stay, and other things Peru. Human beings work in every shop, and so long as the mechanics are experienced and qualified, I'll take a mistake now and then. I cannot complain whenever I pay for work in Peru, because the labor rates are so low, when taking account for the US dollar/Peru Sole exchange rate.

This kind of discussion is good, and why this forum exists. I believe if you want a top notch moto, the choice is a Japanese moto. If you want to travel on a budget with a China bike, there are some issues that come with the moto. No matter what improvements are made, some issues (brakes in my wife's experience), are part of the quality of the bike.

On the same issue, I had what I believe are China clutch plates installed in my Honda, and they "were not good", a comment from a mechanic in Huaraz, who replaced them on one of my trips. You can read about that on my ride report.

As an edit: I think there is a difference between a rental shop like Around the Block, and one like Freedom Bike Rental in Quito. I had some service done at Freedom, and of course at Around the Block. Both provided excellent service from my experience. Freedom, however, was incredibly expensive, a regret I had when I realized the cost of the service. Around the Block is catering to affordable moto travel in SA. Shops like Freedom are catering to upper end high cost travel. I'm not complaining about Freedom, but I regret not taking the moto to a small local shop in Quito instead. Around the Block is providing a service that makes moto travel in SA realistic for those with less then unlimited budgets. Toby can correct me, but I think this is a component of his business plan.

Not that either one does not have some rough edges. Besides the discussion here, when I was at Freedom for service, there was a party who just took a rental and as I recall returned with moto troubles twice while I was waiting at the shop. Their attitude and treatment of the staff was embarrassing to me as a gringo, but they were having legitimate problems with their Japanese moto that were delaying the start of their high priced trip. Even shops catering to upper end clients can have problems.

Whenever I pick up my moto, I always take it for a day long shake down ride prior to departing. I'd do that with any moto that I purchased or rented, be it located any where in the world including North America. BTW, the 300cc Honda that Toby rents/sells looks really good, with fuel injection and Honda quality! I'd go that direction if I didn't already own my Honda Tornado.

I have heard lots of good comments about your business Toby I planed to ride down there and buy a m/c from him for the prep, and have the m/c papers ready to cross the border.

Tobi I wish you had commented here. You boost that you have that many happy customers, and you don't seem to have any regret that your customer had lost 4 days to cross the border. That guy trusted you, send you money, and you didn't deliver what he paid for.

That could have happen to me or anyone reading here on this forum.

Beleive me Tobi, by reading your reply, I'm way better off to fly directly to Brazil, buy the m/c there and do the prep myself.

poorbuthappy,

Thank you for your honesty, but things are a bit different than they might seem.

First, we make no profit on the sale and resale of the motorcycles. It is a service we provide for budget riders and it brings in the labor for the shop ($6 USD/hr).

Also, the price of the motorcycle to the new purchaser INCLUDES:

- the cost to transfer to Peru the funds ($80 to $138 USD per moto) for the purchase of the new moto or the parts and labor going into the 'used' moto.

- 30 to 80 emails between us and the purchasing rider to make sure the moto and they are prepared as much as possible and that everything is as he/she would like it on the moto.

- the prep (of a new moto) or the full rebuild (of a 'used' moto: new piston and rings, camchain, camchain adjuster, clutch plates, gaskets and seals in the engine, new brake pads/shoes, brake fluid, wheel bearings, steering bearings, fork seals, fork fluid, inner tubes and tires (of customers choice), O-Ring chain and sprockets. All this even if the prior owner may have only had it for 6 weeks!

-the processing and costs of the motorcycle owners card, license plate, and Peru SOAT insurance for 1 year.

- the cost and processing of the transfer of name to the purchaser when he/she arrives requiring only 1/2 hour of their time and they are ready to go with all the paperwork they need. This even includes standing hours in line at the Banco de la Nacion to pay for the PERMISO ESPECIAL DE FIRMAR CONTRATOS COMO TURISTA, (the permission for the foreigner to sign binding contracts in Peru) then processing it with Peru Immigration.

- the cost of the name transfer if they choose bring the moto back to us for the Buy Back.

- custom built (our standard) steel rear and side racks for luggage reinforced with triangulation to the rear footpegs to save the rear subframe from breaking.

- Bark-buster handguards for falls or dangerous situations in traffic.

- Professional seating in of the new engine, then change of oil and filter (if used) and post seat-in adjustments, so that when the new owner arrives they can load it and ride off on their Epic Trip.

- so that the new moto owner does not have to wait, WE do the follow up with the Peruvian Vehicle Registry, getting the registry document that now has the new owner's name on it (the owners card only has that information in a bar code) and forwarding it to them where ever they happen to be in Peru.

YES, all that does add costs to the new or 'used/made new' moto. What we are doing is saving you time (even weeks!) because your time may be VERY valuable and LIMITED. That is the service we provide. But YOU can save that extra cost (if you have the time and the Spanish knowledge) by doing this yourself.

We DO NOT process your border crossings for you. We provide you with the documentation proving that the motorcycle is in YOUR name (via name transfer or PODER) which IS a requirement to take the moto OUT of Peru.
Our website has always said: " We process the paperwork on the motorcycle into your name, a requirement to cross borders". Up until the experience of this customer it was the ONLY requirement as over 100 had done so prior to this.

SOME border Aduana personnel at SOME border crossings, SOME of the time have decided that a detail in a law passed 17 months earlier would now be enforced requiring a PODER and the help of a Peruvian citizen. In the time since then only 30% have had to do this. Some just went back to the same border crossing at a different time and this was not required. Some others just went to a different border crossing and nothing was required.

The fact that governments change their minds (new laws, some enforced, some not), and that border officials can decide what they want to do whether your paperwork is all in order or not, and that they may even want an 'incentive' to process what should be without cost or delay was not appreciated by this customer. Chile for example has changed their minds multiple times in JUST THIS LAST YEAR about whether a foreigner can take a Chilean moto OUT of Chile!

Also, for this customer, Aduana looked into their computer system and found that the paperwork on this particular motorcycle (now at the Peru/Bolivia border) when it re-entered Peru (at the Peru/Ecuador border) a year prior with a previous owner, ADUANA (customs) ITSELF had failed to enter that information into THEIR OWN SYSTEM. They decided to hold this over this customer.

We put this customer in touch with the prior owner and got him the passport proof of the Ecuador-Peru crossing to argue with the Aduana that it was THEIR ERROR. This caused the delay and extra costs for this customer. He demanded that WE reimburse him this lost time and $$.

Who should pay for this Aduana error or inefficiency (or corruption)?

- ATBMA who make no profit on the service of re-selling your used moto for you so that you don't lose time trying to sell it yourself?

- The shop (who gets the labor from the rebuilding of the bike for the next rider) that makes $6 USD/hr?

- The shop mechanics that make $4/labor hr to support their families?

We not only provide the documents showing that the new rider is the new owner, but the document we provide from the Peru Vehicle Registry shows that the vehicle is FREE from all liens, judgements, and fines. An error by Customs at an international border doesn't show up. This is the only time we have had this situation with over 100 motos going out and crossing all SA borders.

We DO go beyond what we promise on our website and help riders. There are many hundreds of posts on this forum and others where we provide advice, maps, links, and recommendations to riders that have no connection to ATBMA income.

We have even spoken to Police (via phone) in other countries of SA asking them to be lenient of the foreign rider that struggles with Spanish! We have recommended distressed riders in far away places to our friends. We have ridden out 5 hours from our base (at no cost) to take gasoline to a rider who forgot to fill up before they left town! We have made service maintenance arrangements in other countries for riders who did not speak Spanish well.

YES, we do mark up the bus tickets $1-$3 USD we purchase in the name of the customer arriving for our time and saving that customer the $8 it would cost them (and the loss of 2 hours time) to go to downtown Lima to purchase it themselves. The good bus seats on the safe bus can only be purchased IN PERSON 2-3 days in advance, so we help them with this. Then they only have to show up at the station and pick up their ticket when it is time to leave. We have never had another customer think that we were 'taking advantage' of them with this service!!

We NOW (due to the experience of this customer) provide new riders with the new information of what some have recently faced and provide them with a copy of the type of PODER they MAY be requested to provide at SOME borders exiting Peru. We inform them of this new possible situation BEFORE they purchase a Peruvian motorcycle through us...

What more can we do? South America is each riders own adventure!

__________________
http://www.aroundtheblockmotoadventures.com/
'We build the bike (in Peru) for your Epic Ride of South America.'

Would just like to point out that "This is the only time we have had this [problems crossing borders for the second time] situation with over 100 motos going out and crossing all SA borders" is definitely not true. The person (X) who i mentioned didn't want to be involved in this review had to pay ~$160 to get his bike into Bolivia. Toby was told about this at least twice so is aware.

Additionally:

I wasn't offered a choice of tyres. X was offered a choice of tyres, but when he arrived different ones were fitted.

ATBMA didn't provide any help for crossing the border beyond saying "try again". This gets tiresome after being turned away 3 times

I wasn't ready to go in 0.5 hours

I wasn't sent the registry document proving the bike is in my name

At least one of Toby's other customers arrived to a rusty chain. I think this was swapped though.

Yes I'm being anal here, but my point in all of this is that Toby didn't deliver what he said he would.

I've met all 3 people involved in this thread: Toby, Jaime and the OP (whose real name is? Hiding behind aliases doesn't give me a good impression)

Toby: Has helped me with routing advice, hospitality and urgent parts that he took off one of his personal bikes so my trip wasn't negatively affected.

Jaime and all the guys at Macedo Racing: Did excellent work including opening the motor on my bike and allowed me to use their tools and workshop for a few bits and pieces that I did myself. Ran errands for me too. All for a nominal US$6/hr (or free). Super people!

The OP: Met him and his partner at a hostel in Cusco: IMHO, a very cocksure attitude and poo-pooed my first hand information regarding possible border issues entering Bolivia (that actually transpired...) I had passed through both Desaguadero and Lago Titicaca several times during the previous month. After my initial interaction with the OP I chose not to have anything further to do with him for the next day or so that we spent in the same hostel.

__________________

Brighty's website: TheBrightStuffDotCom

CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

"We DO NOT process your border crossings for you. We provide you with the documentation proving that the motorcycle is in YOUR name (via name transfer or PODER) which IS a requirement to take the moto OUT of Peru."

To be honest Toby you owe me an apology just for backtracking so hard on your" it's so illegal to ride a bike on a poder that the aduana is going to take it off you " nonsense.

You do owe the guy a refund for lost time and bus ticket money. You scream to the heavens on these forums that the legit way to buy a bike in south America and have squeeky clean paperwork is to buy it through you, then it turns out that's not the case.

Your buy back bikes might not make you much but the original price you sell them for would have, Chinese bikes for nearly $3k usd?

As I've said before and I'll say again, because of some of YOUR comments specifically on this forum I nearly gave up on my trip, thinking the only way I could do it was to buy a bike from you (which I couldn't afford) and then return it to Peru to sell to you (which wasn't my intended route).

Chris - In hostel Estrella you strongly hinted at avoiding the aduana altogether to cross into Bolivia, which seemed unwise. This is why I didn't pursue your advice further, which may have come across as cocksure to you. Just double checked and you also had bad words to say about the OP in the other "dare to question Toby" thread.

My real name is Charlie, some mates shorten this to Chaz, the Wozzer is just added to make a stupid reference to one of my fave Simpsons episodes.

Hello Charlie
I heard of your paperwork situation at hostal Estrellita (note correct name). I foresaw the problems that actually transpired. I observed that one option would be to just drive through the border at Desaguadero without stopping anywhere. While being highly illegal, it would have meant not ending up in the situation you did.

The bloke in the other thread you refer to was talking unadulterated bollox, so I said so. Sorry. I used to contribute a lot on the hubb. Now I don't bother much, because most people know everything better themselves.

__________________

Brighty's website: TheBrightStuffDotCom

CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

Getting stuck at desaguadero sucked, but at least i didn't have to worry about dropping the soap.