We want to sell our Land Rover to another foreigner in South America. OK, there is info on the web about this and please believe me, I'm doing my research. However, a lot of what I find is unclear, inconclusive or contradictory - which may well be because that's what the process is.

There is talk, for example, of exchanging “between borders” but many – most, indeed - of the borders we've crossed are “dual”: the first desk “is Uruguay”, say; the one next to it“is Argentina”. (An exception to this is Brasil-Uruguay at Chuy.)

Is one supposed to physically change the plates, fastening on suitable new ones? And what about the documentation? Our documentation, with which we've successfully crossed, sometimes on several occasions, in and out of UGY/ARG/CH/PAR/BOL/BR consists of the original sales invoice (new vehicle from dealer) and a document from the police issued before we left that country showing my name, the licence plate number, colour etc. of the vehicle and its engine and chassis number (but not VIN).

But to get those documents transferred to someone else in a way that will ensure they don't have problems?? I can hardly begin to imagine how this can be done.

Is there an "ABC for Dummies" somewhere that spells out how to proceed in this sort of case, or is it the case that the whole business is indeed messy and unclear?

I would so much appreciate advice from anyone who's been involved in this kind of sale or knows about it. We want to do this in Bolivia/northern or central Argentina/Uruguay/Paraguay.

Thanks very much.

There is no abc or 123 simply because there are too many variables to deal with.

The country you are in - because some tie your vehicle to you in the passport, but most don't.
The country the vehicle is registered in - because some make it absolutely impossible to transfer the registration out of country
Nationality of buyer - because some vehicles can't be bought by non-citizens of the country of registration
Is the TVIP valid - many have expired
Does the vehicle actually belong to the seller - not if they have been driving it on a poder from the previous owner.
Is the registration still current - many have expired
Are the papers genuine or drawn up by mr photoshop
Are the license plates genuine - often not
What about mandatory liability insurance - can it be valid with shonky documentation or no clear title
Can both parties be trusted to follow detailed instructions known to work - Hmmm
Are they smart enough to consider the high chance of failure and possible loss of the vehicle -- has happened
Does the vehicle have any uncancelled TVIP outstanding in any country - Very common and will cause problems when next going back

etc etc

and last but hardly least - it is almost always illegal.

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

This can be summed up in one word, beginning with "ni" and ending in "mare".

Plates are genuine. I´m the owner. TVIP in Bolivia not expired; exits from all countries properly done (TVIPs canceled) so no problem for anyone going back there.

Tony, do you happen to know - or does anyone else know - whether for Bolivia, passport is tied to vehicle? I will search for this info.

I can not help, but I see people asking the same questions in the FB Groups, like : https://www.facebook.com/groups/Over...gSouthAmerica/ so may be ask there as well.

I've bought two vehicles and sold one and despite things working out really well, it was still a bit stressful because you plan it out and then find out that won't work so you have to change things around and all the planning is for nothing. For example you pick a border and then can't use that border because it is closed by snow and the next choice is 400km in the opposite direction to where you want to go - or you plan on having the same plates so you can use a colocated border, and then the DMV stuffs it up and decides the plates can't stay the same so that border post is out - or a border run was planned and then it gets delayed and the old owner has to fly home etc etc. Despite all of that it usually goes smoothly enough in the end and the verifiable stories of vehicle confiscations are really very few.
The unknowns are also a worry. First seller to me came into the country of handover and was stopped because he had 4 TVIP still active - because they don't always bother to enter the details on the computer system so they never get cancelled. Took a couple of days and a long detour to sort it out, but what if they hadn't stopped him, but stopped me on the way out instead. Same vehicle, same VIN and same plates and me with a poder trying to sort that out 8 months after the changeover.
Best you can do is research whatever you can and try to cover everything and just do it.

Quite a few aspects of touring South America are stressful even apart from the "usual" corruption you come up against in some countries, sometimes several times a day, but others such as arranging to leave your vehicle in Peru (legally) because you have to buy a plane ticket and then go through all the steps and then you have to fly home without knowing whether permission was granted. Others are self inflicted such as leaving the car in Brazil for a year and then figuring out how to get out without getting into trouble, or just the luck of the draw as has happened to maybe 40 travellers in Uruguay through no real fault of their own.

All part of the adventure I guess

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Thanks, very interesting. Yes, a lot of stress. One just has to keep looking into and ride with the problems and unknowns.

In Bolivia, is a vehicle tied/connected TO ONE·S PASSPORT?

According to Tony LEE·S post, above, a vehicle seems to be tied to the owner·s passport in Brasil, otherwise one wouldn·t have to "figure out how to get out without getting into trouble."

If I can sell in Bolivia, I envisage crossing the border with Argentina on a long-distance bus.

Any comments, please?

No, doesn't mean that at all for Brazil. In fact, Brazil doesn't care much at all about the vehicle at some border posts. Some! We entered by land, left by air, entered by air and left by land - all without comment about the vehicle. My problem was picking the one that wouldn't query a major overstay. Many other countries where aduana and immigration are completely separate entities and have quite different rules for people and vehicles - such as Arg, Uruguay and Ecuador and Bolivia don't normally bother checking about a vehicle left behind. Some places however make a special note about a vehicle against your passport entry stamp and they are known to stop you leaving without the vehicle. Other countries don't mark your passport but may have interconnected computer systems and know way of us knowing how closely they are integrated.

My situation in Brazil was the same as in all countries that issue TVIPs where if you are late leaving, fines are issued. We were 9 months late leaving with the vehicle but well within the dates of our visas. Same can happen if you are late leaving beyond the validity date on your visa.

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Tony, thanks for these further comments. There is nothing in my passport about the vehicle and if we left without it, this would be well within the duration of the length of the permiso (for both self and vehicle), thus giving time to return. One would just have to "go for it" and trust in whatever power is in charge of the universe.

I sold my motorcycle in Paraguay 10 years ago. It is a royal pain to have to sell a vehicle in Latin America. It took 2 months of waiting for the seller to finally turn over the funds. There is a lot of BS involved with officially importing your vehicle. Mercado Libre makes Craigslist California look as trustworthy as a Shoalin Monastery.

I recommend one of the following 3 options:

1. Import a less then $5k vehicle and just plan on abandoning it at the end of your trip. Someone might give you $1k or $500 to take it off your hands no questions asked.

2. Import a greater then $5k vehicle and plan to send it back home at the end of the trip.

3. Rent and fly while you are over there.


Attempting to sell it over there is going to lead to major stress.

__________________
http://www.journeyrider.net Latin America blog (07-8)

gatogato, thanks for this. Yes, stressful indeed.