Hi All,

I will be traveling in from Cartagena Colombia to Ushuaia Argentina and then back up to Paraguay Uruguay starting in October 2020, solo trip. I have 15+ years of steady pavement riding (My own Japanese and Italian Sport-bikes, and various loaners/rentals of every other type of bike) and am quite confident on the road, I had a blast the few times I have been on dirt-bikes but dirt is definitely not my Forte. I have narrowed down my bike of choice to most likely the V Strom 650 (Adventure w spokes), so my below questions would be with that bike in mind.

1) TIRES! This is probably my biggest question mark at the moment, I am not sure what to put on. I love riding twisty roads aggressively, and want to enjoy some of the best roads in the world that I am sure to come across. I am aware that you find whatever kind of roads that you want, but also do not want to limit myself to pavement and would like something workable in the dirt roads that can be found in CA/SA and allow me to explore (an aside, any input on what kind of road conditions to expect would be welcome). The big two seem to be TKC 80 and K60 Scout. Never rode knobbies on the road, but from everything I've read the TKC 80 surprisingly seems to be superior in every respect than the K60 (even on pavement), except wear. K60 wear seems amazing, but the issues that seem to arise in the wet scare me a bit, and the reported lack of traction in dry (by comparison) makes me wonder if the compromise is worth it. I completely get that soft compound=grip and wear and then vice-versa for harder compounds, and that by nature a dual purpose tire is a compromise. Metzler Enduro 3 Sahara and Karoo 3 seem like other options?
So, I'm looking to get some feedback from people that have had these tires, or others, and especially people that have done this trip and their tire feedback.

2) Camping/Gear. I like the idea of taking a tent, sleeping bag and cooking stove for the romance of sleeping under the stars, cost savings and the emergency potential. I am not by nature a camper, but see previous points lol. On the other hand, I know that there are huge parts of this trip where camping is probably not advisable; I wonder if the cost savings of camping the odd-time will even offset the cost of buying a decent tent/sleeping bag/stove etc, let alone be a net savings. And then there is the added weight/bulk to be lugging around, I usually like to travel light and my many years of traveling has proven the old adage true; pack your bags with everything that you think you need, and then remove half of it! Any feedback about this from people who have done this trip would be appreciated.

3)Any other general travel/safety/tip/advice from people who have done this trip.

Thank you all, and maybe I will run into some of you on the road!

Cheers,

Put some TKCs on whatever you're riding now and see how they feel when you're "riding twisty roads aggressively." Take note of how quickly they wear out when stressed, then check both your budget and how often you're going to want to go to the trouble of replacing them along the way. I don't know what you'll conclude, but I know that I ended up settling for whatever tires I could easily find. I didn't spend a year riding around Latin America in order to spend a lot of time shopping for tires.

All your questions are frequently asked here, and have been debated extensively, so I'm reluctant to go into any detail. My suspicion is that if you don't like camping, you won't camp--alternatives are pretty convenient. If you find yourself subject to a mysterious change of heart, you'll buy camping gear as needed.

As for "Any other general travel/safety/tip/advice," well, that covers a lot of ground. Specific questions based on prior research tend to attract useful answers.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

I used both the TKC 80 and the K60 on my 701 from Peru to Punta Arenas. Very similar tires and never any problems in the wet (it never rained much). I also had a Karoo 3 and it was the fastest wearing tire on the seal I ever tried. Once you get south of Santiago it will be a matter of finding a tire that fits rather than deciding which tire. You can get K60 most of the way south which you will see plenty of advise on here. As for the tent I took one and never used it.

Last summer I rode both the Dempster and the Dalton highway together with 3 guys on each their V-Strom 650s. They all had fitted Mitas E07 and they all praised those tires. I also really like the rear Mitas E07 but I dont like the front that much, but thats my personal opinion. K60 will vener ever be on a bike that I own though, but again thats my personal opinion. I even used a set of TKC70 down to Patagonia and they did just fine, although in hindsight some more knobby tires would have been better.

As mentioned above - in central and south America one should normally be happy if ine find something with the right size. Especially south of Santiago....

Pirelli MT60 are a readily available tyre in south-America and not a bad tyre even though not a hardcore knobby tyre.

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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

The E07 is very popular in Southern Africa where the roads are quite comparable to South America. They are robust, long-lasting and have proper grip.

Personally I prefer to combine tyres, preferably TKC80 or Anakee Wild in front and something long-lasting in the rear like TKC70 or K60 Scout. The knobblies are useful in sandy spots and these two perform well on tarmac. I don't like the TKC70 front tyre though....



On my old R80GS the TKC80 was the perfect tyre for the front wheel, being absolutely symmetrical. After 10,000 kms I turned the wheel around (you could do that on the old Beemer) and rode for another 10,000 kms

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do we go beyond the limits of our little lives.
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Paddy , welcome to the HU site , first off a strange question .
I found this question on the Central America and Mexico forum today and noticed that there were no replies . Then I checked your cv and HU history and found that you have only made 3 posts ever , all of them today .Then I went to those and find that you have triple posted the same question on three different locations or forums ( fora)
Could you , or you get the admin’s , to consolidate these into whatever single forum that makes more sense ?shotgun questions are hard to figure out for you getting answers . I only caught it because it was on Mexico and Central America forum
, so are you riding to Panama and then Colombia ?



Markharf makes several excellent points

Don’t overthink this tire thing , don’t turn into a tire snob.
You already said you are a road rider and not yet that at ease on a dirt bike . You also said the bike of choice is the 650 V- Strom , a versatile bike but definitely NOT a dirt bike especially if loaded with all manner of travel and camping gear .
Your starting point is Cartagena from which we are to assume ... what ? - that you are either shipping the whole plot there to begin the ride or you are buying it there and getting it set up when you arrive ?
Much of the banter about tires on these web forums comes down to something like wine or aficionados discussing their drug of choice , it all comes down to personal experience , opinions , preferences and budgets and bench racing .Nobody can tell you , in spite of what they may claim
, that the dime they rode across was contacting with a with head or tail .

Nearly all of your riding can be done on paved roads and with a laden street bike you are unlikely to go cow trailing or llama tracking when traveling alone . There will always be limits on what can be done so accept that and enjoy what you are capable of doing .
Ergo you don’t really need the dirt tires with huge knobs which are iffy on wet or dry pavement and may be prone to shedding knobs rendering them a useless impediment .
You will not need high- speed -performance street tires either , you are not going road racing or trying to set endurance records . You want to actually take pleasure from the riding and see the countries you are passing through , not a succession of shift and braking points . Apex storming is fun but save that for roads when you know them on a repeat run or two when you have an idea of where there may be livestock or washouts after blind corners . You need durable tires which handle well enough at normal road speed and can get you across construction zones and the occasional stretch of unpaved highway and secondary roads .
If a tire gets terminally damaged or wears out en route you will not be in any position to get exactly that oh -so -desirable brand/ model / series you were set up with as an ideal .
Pick a dual sport tire that has roughly a highway: dirt road Percentage ratio of 80:20
Choose whatever brand you like and try it out and get used to it if you have that luxury . Be prepared to take whatever tire is available and move on ; it too will wear out eventually and you may be able to get the dream tire then .
Don’t shrink away from brands/ models like the SHINKO 705 , or one of the KENDA , or other obscure brands you may never have heard of .

As for camping , if it is going to be an occasional thing when and if the conditions are right there is no need to spend a thousand dollars on a super- duty tent . A cheap disposable rain -adapted tent should suffice .No doubt you will elect a hotel if the weather is miserable . Same goes for cooking gear - do you imagine doing that a lot or is it just to boil water for coffee/ tea or to make oatmeal porridge and heat up wieners ? Do you plan on carrying perishable food supplies and dishes just for that ?

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http://advrider.com/index.php?thread....207964/page-5 then scroll down to post #93

markharf- good advice about fitting on tyres to test out first (TKC 80 etc), but the issue is they wont fit on my Ducati 848 very well! I will most likely take your advice and get the V strom as soon as the roads/weather in Ontario are suitable, then spend a few months getting used to the new steed and see what I think. I would lean more towards performance and use vs the cost of needing to replace and extra set or two of tires, purely from a cost point of view I am not overly concerned. I would however be concerned if it is a hassle trying to find tire places to buy and install tires. Is this an issue in Latin America, or is it easy to find? In Vietnam our crappy little Honda Wins broke down every day and we were never further than 10 minutes from someone who could fix us up and get us back on the road. We got a cylinder head welded and repaired in someones living room, 3 hours and $20 later we were on our way!
Another good point that if I feel the need/want for a tent along the way I can get one, as opposed to lugging one across two continents. Fair enough about the specific questions, I guess it really isn't helpful for me to ask for broad general info in a post. Thank you for the info.

DLyttle- That is kind of what I was looking for and had suspected, hearing from someone who had taken a tent and never used it, as Mark said I can get one if I feel the need. TKC80 and K60 seem to be the ones most recomended for this type of trip. Cheers.

Snakeboy- While some seem to love the K60 you are not the first person to have shown a strong personal aversion to it; that is one of the things that are making me shy away from it. The Mitas and Pirelli are other interesting options. Basically what I am starting to understand is to just pick something as I am almost guaranteed not to be able to find my "tire of choice" on the road. I did like the look of the TKC 70, but was concerned it may not give enough grip off the tarmac for all of the varied conditions, and you seem to have confirmed that.

Vaufi-I have never mixed tires, again mostly sportbike riding for me to date so I like the predictability of the same tires front and back. A lot of ADV/dualsport guys seem to like mixing/matching tires. Any other info people feel like offering on mixing and matching (or not) would be informative.

Sjoerd Bakker- Absolutely! Sorry, I got a bit type happy finally posting, I have been reading here for years and finally felt the need to ask for info and overdid it a bit. I wasn't sure the exact forum to use as my trip spans both North, Central and South America. I have removed my other two posts as I got some replies on here. I will be riding from Toronto, Canada to Panama visiting friends along the way in America and Mexico (and hopefully making others!). From Panama I am planning on shipping the bike and myself on the Stahratte to Cartagena and then continuing to Ushuai, then back up the eastern part of the continent. That is as far as my planning has gotten at this point, from there I will decide whether to ride or ship the bike home, or ship the bike home and continue travelling (would love to do a RTW on one bike but the Carnet issue in Africa and other countries may be a bigger obstacle than I am willing to face).

I am definitely not a tire snob, and hope to never be one haha. This is just such a different type of trip/riding than "most" of my usual trips (although I have done some touring on an F800GS with dual sport tires) that I want to get some info from experts like you guys so that I can make a reasonably informed decision. But I think it is very sage advice for me to not overthink it and just get something suitable and go as they will most likely need to be replaced multiple times with whatever is available. I am aware that with this trip, as in life, compromises are necessary and there is as you say limits on what can be done. I am an adventurous person by nature, am fairly well travelled and I love getting off the beaten path. I was considering something slightly more offroad oriented (KLR/Africa Twin) so that I have the freedom to explore/go wherever, but I am not sure that I am willing to sacrifice on road ride-ability for the longer paved stretches. I understand the V strom is not in any way a dirt-bike, but I am hoping that it would be a good enough compromise to be able to get off the beaten path somewhat; can anyone offer any insight on this? I am willing to learn from my failures!

As far as the camping, your post and others make me think it is probably not worth loading up with a tent/sleeping bag/cooking gear and utensils just to make coffee in the morning and the odd meal, and carrying perishables (such as weiners lol) so probably not going to go that way.

Thank you all for the info, much appreciated and if anyone else feels they have something to add from info I have given or received feel free to chime in.

Be safe out there!

Tyres: fit whatever, after a month you'll stop caring what rubber you've got on. Central and Southern American "adventure riding" is primarily small twisty roads, if you end up on the pan am highway doing 130+ then you're doing it wrong.

Bike: plan for the worst 10% of the roads you'll do, not the best 90. As I said, if you end up on a highway doing 130+ day in day out then you're doing it wrong. So I'd get something more like the KLR or Africa twin rather than the Strom. At least you have the option. And in south America anything over 200cc is considered a big bike so don't worry about the on road compromise of 600+ cc bikes as it's just not a concern. It's like asking the preference between a jeep and a 5 series BMW in a country full of Ladas.

Camping gear: if you don't already ride and camp regularly don't bother bringing gear, highly unlikely to start on a big trip and it is a big bulk of expense and weight to drag with you.

I'm an old guy and have made a number of SA trips, mostly in Peru: Although the VStrom is an excellent moto, if you plan to venture off the PanAm, you should consider a lighter moto. Most gringos I've met while riding in SA comment negatively about their heavy moto. Seldom do you need the speed/acceleration of a big moto. Weight is the issue of prime importance. I own a 250cc moto in Peru, and it's perfect, even does fine on the PanAm. It shines when I get in to a detour, flooding, or road construction with mud and other road challenges. These unplanned issues happen off the PanAm (where you see the country), and even happens on the PanAm (boring road...) More than once I've been directed to a detour around a road closure, flooding, or land slide that would be incredibly difficult/impossible on a 650cc weight moto. Those times, turning around or waiting for days would be the only other option.

The most scenic and interesting places to visit more often are on the interior roads (often blacktop, but also solid gravel), and off the PanAm. In the mountains, those same roads are narrow, and you have to be on a nimble moto when suddenly meeting oncoming busses/trucks/

I agree with above comments; ditch the camping gear and stay in Posadas/hotels, eat the local food. The US and Canadian dollar go a long way. My in country daily travel costs have run under $40 US/day, including tires and moto repairs.

LD Hack-I am hearing more and more suggestions about taking a smaller bike, and they make perfect sense for south america. I don't think I could go as small as 250cc, but the DR650 seems to get a lot of recommendations for this type of trip and is starting to look appealing in some ways. One of my concerns going for a smaller or more dirt oriented bike is that I plan on getting across Canada and America quite quickly (2-3 weeks with some social stops) as I have seen most of it already and have plans to meet a friend in Mexico. After years of larger street bikes I am not sure that I would be satisfied with a smaller thumper "enduro/dirt" bike for the times when I will be spending days eating up the miles. But I also want the freedom to go "off the beaten path" lol. I want my cake and would like to eat it too, but maybe just not possible. To your point a lot of Gringos take much much bigger bikes (ex R2100GS), some of which I find insane, and while I am sure they have complaints and might do it differently next time, a lot of them make it.

I was hoping the Vstrom 650 would be a good compromise and allow some versatility while recognizing its limits (I am looking at suspension upgrade to assist with slightly more rougher stuff capabilities). I am definitely not planning on staying on the Pan AM the whole time, but also not planning on doing any serious single track type stuff that I know the Vstrom would not make it on. Anyone done it on this bike and agree/disagree? My other concern with something smaller is that weighed down with even a moderate amount of luggage it would negatively affect not only the "power" availability and fuel economy, but also the weight and offroad advantages that type of bike may have over a Vstrom?

I know there are a ton of other threads out there, but if anyone has an opinion (or even better an experience!) I would love to hear

Taking a bigger, heavier bike because you're, worried about the first two weeks of the trip isn't great planning. If you're worried about the first section only then trailer it to MX. In my opinion, vstrom is the wrong bike for south of the gap, plain and simple.

Yes others "make it" on Gs1200. As do many many more people make it on XR150... It's always a compromise, everything is, but if you're already dead set on the vstrom please don't ask us to talk you out of it, only for you to take it anyway. Just take the Strom.

To answer the main question you had there though which was regarding being weighed down with luggage. You aren't taking camping gear, so how many KG of clothes are you taking?? Haha! But seriously, for 18 months, with full camping gear which I used a lot, I was nearly tipping 25kg... Which is like having a toddler on the back of the bike. I started on a KLR650 and sold it for an XRE300 because the KLR was just too big to enjoy the trip properly on.

Either way, enjoy it man.

It boils down to the roads you decide to take, you can make it as easy or difficult as you want, from 100% paved roads to dual sport - only tracks.
V strom can be ok accepting it will limit you here and there. It will do most main gravel roads, mountain pases etc. Will strugle on sand and mud but how many kms of those will you ride? A F800gs or similar could be a good balance. Honda transalp used to be a very popular bike for this kind of trips, to get an idea.
Tyres: you dont need agressive knobbies, Pirelli MT60 or Saharas End. 3 type are OK.
Lasty, Ive done a number of trips on small bikes in the region, including a 7.000Km Patagonian trip on a 250cc about 1.500km of gravel, it went well but next time will take a biger bike. Patagonian wind slow down a 250cc, you wont be able to keep up with traffic in main roads, I strugled to pass buses and 18 wheelers, I prefer some powe in reserve. Its a compromise. You can go check itchy boots videos to see the type of terrain you could find on the other hand go check oissin hughes videos, he did it on a big bike.

The issue is not the main roads, but the last few kilometers to get to places to visit. The question is, "What are your limits on the Strom?" In Peru, which is the majority of my SA experience, most of the ruins I enjoyed were on gravel switchback roads. In the Cusco area, the difference is choosing to explore Machu Picchu or Huchuy Qusco, or visiting ruins/sights in the northern Peru highlands route (access more challenging), vs not. If you're not super dedicated to road challenges on the Strom, you might start to bypass those places because of the challenges. Detours: they happen, and they are tough on a 650cc moto; mud, steep hills, narrow roadways. Off the PanAm, where you experience the local culture, there will be unexpected issues; stream crossing, mud for sure, bumpy rock filled road, narrow pedestrian bridge or landslide detour vs turning back. Sometimes available overnight parking for a bigger moto can be a challenge to access. Narrow blacktop roads: You will meet a bus or truck in a hairpin turn on a one track wide mountain road, and being nimble is paramount, even when traveling at 25 kph. These are the main roads, off the PanAm. They are blacktop or good gravel. Unless you do not plan to explore off the PanAm, these issues are part of the choice to leave the PanAm.

It all depends on what you're looking for, your passion level to explore unknown places, and what you want in a moto. Some folks like to make miles and spend time in cities at backpacker hostels, drink cerveza, and such. They stop at sights that are easy to access. Others (obviously my bias) look to get away from the tourist track, which now and then involves road challenges. In SA, the condition of the PanAm is like the State highways in North America, and the well used secondary roads are like township and county roads. The Strom will be a challenge now and then off the PanAm, but it will easily shine on the better roads.

Buen viaje a tu!

As an edit, "a picture is worth 1000 words" Peru highlands route:

Muddy tires from ascending switchback access to ruins at Chachapoyas


Road construction on Highland Route in Peru:


Wait 6 hours in the rain until evening or take this detour:


And this is some of the great riding:


And of course, plenty of this:


And this:


Plus this:

Watch Pedro moto on a trans alp.
Doing a lot of of road in South America.

A RE HImalayan works perfect.
But 400 cc, not 650cc.

I will use a 650 for Ruta 4 and Carretera Austral.

Bikes are always a compromise.
And we are lucky that not everyone have the same taste.

My friend and I are also riding south this fall on our GSA's. Has anyone called ahead to bike shops in some of the cities and had specific tires shipped down so you can have the ones you want?

I'm ok with picking up whatever is available but if I can ship some and know they are there waiting on me that might be nice. I know some people do that on the way to Alaska in the summer.

Any experience with that?