That was Chris's definition, but I interpret -

-'unsupported journeys' to be just the rider(s) and what they have, without a series of 4x4s in tow containing mechanics, translators, spares, heavy equipment, medics, fixers, etc. Riders having to primarily rely on their own ability and ingenuity to get them through and deal with immediate problems.

-'wilderness' to be somewhere where the infrastructures of modern life and civilisation are not abundant. Out of ones normal environment, perhaps.

__________________
Vitim Bridge Clubwww.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442
www.sibirskyextreme.com

Okay.

So are you just saying drop the "significantly strange country" from the definition? Just trying to understand the proposition.

__________________
Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

How about 'gone riding'.

__________________
Unattended children will be served espresso and given a puppy.

Does a weekend trip to North Wales count then?

__________________
This old world keeps spinning round, it`s a wonder tall trees ain`t laying down.

Tony you trying to rattle a few cages.
Its a funny thing cos I did a few biggish trips in the late 70s (for me at that time they were well out of my norm or comfort zone these days they are nothing more than tourist runs anyway - probably were back then but felt big at the time in my tender years ) I have also pushed out in different directions since the late 90s some places were true wilderness or very Alien but were great fun or experiences.

I may be old fashioned but back then as now I called it touring on a motorbike. Is this not all it is. Add all the bolt on bits the buzzy lingo whatever really its just touring - maybe off the beaten track a bit but touring all the same.

So I propose we could call it Motorcycle touring - quite gritty don't you think.

Back in my younger days, I was heavily into downhill skiing. Would miss maybe 10 days in the season. Back then, where we were going and what we were doing, we just called it 'skiing'. It's just what we did.

Now I see it on tv, and they call it 'EXTREME SKIING!!!'. Guess it's important in this 'hey, look at me' society that is going on in the western world. Twitter is a prime example of this, I think...telling the world that you're going for groceries.

I don't get it myself, so I just say: 'I'm going riding'.

__________________
Unattended children will be served espresso and given a puppy.

EXTREME GROCERY SHOPPING !!!!! Yay -- Way To Go !!!!

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

You must have met my wife

I'm with Adventure 950 on this. When I started in the early 70's it was just bike touring. Not that many people were doing it, there wasn't any suppliers infrastructure or really any suitable bikes. I went up the Todra Gorge in Morocco on a loaded up GoldWing because I didn't know any better.
The "adventure" bit seems to have come in when companies realised there was a market to be sold to. Make you feel that you're out "on the edge where few people go" and you're more likely to buy whatever it is they're trying to sell you. Specialised cutting edge activities need specialised equipment, right?

I think it is really important not to become elitist about bike travel.

There will always be people that like all the gear more than the adventure and there will always be someone willing to go for that little bit longer or to a stranger place than you.

The important bit is the fact that they are doing it and on two wheels.

My two cents worth..

We all like to compete a bit, be part of a teams, groups that like to be seen to be 'in' and those who define themselves as being on the 'outside' but I think the quote above is more about humans trying to look more confident but actually becoming more insecure. When you meet people we usually try 'to make a good impression' but this idea could actually be distorted into 'being what you think other's want you to be' and that doesn't sound good.

So the idea of labeling travelling around on motorcycles has less to do with taxonomy and more to do with a generally increasing level of insecurity (possibly heightened by effective marketing techniques).

__________________
Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk

A quick online search for the definition of "Adventure" produces this:
ad·ven·ture (d-vnchr)n.

1. a. An undertaking or enterprise of a hazardous nature.
1. b. An undertaking of a questionable nature
2. An unusual or exciting experience
3. Participation in hazardous or exciting experiences
4. A financial speculation or business venture.

v. ad·ven·tured, ad·ven·tur·ing, ad·ven·tures
v.tr.
1. To venture upon; undertake or try.
2. To expose to danger or risk; hazard.
v.intr.
1. To take a risk; dare.
2. To proceed despite risks.

So if what you are doing is hazardous, questionable, exciting and risky then it is an adventure!

For me riding to Taoz in Southern Morocco was an adventure, yet I had a book of routes to follow, GPS, a credit card and a mobile phone.

Perhaps if I'd done it without any of the modern gadgets it'd have been more adventurous, but then, I enjoy those things so would it have been as much fun for me?

Dunno. Each to their own. Personally, anything outside Europe or the States would count as an adventure to me.

I'll go with this one;

1. b. An undertaking of a questionable nature.

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

That covers the ride to work then!

You can have an adventure in Scotland or Wales and I can certainly see that riding the trails in Southern Morocco is a bigger adventure still (I've done nothing bigger or better for sure). Even the blokes riding the tour company Bullets were doing more than I'd guess most had done before. All good stuff.

What I think does alternately make me smile or want or hit someone is people give themselves inflated titles based on some deed that in most cases has been done plenty of times before. I met a guy who was planning on writing a book because he was going to the North Cape. Like the idiot I am I assumed he was going in January on a C90 or was planning to list all the decent hotels, campsites and bars along the way. He was a little put out when I said I'd done that route and it was really just a nice road ride. The book of course never appeared as far as I know and I'm sure amongst his mates he's now known as Mr Extreme-Adventure-road tourer, but amongst some of the company here abouts I don't think his book would sell!

Now my mate at work who thinks I'm a cross between Sir Ranulph Feins and Dougie Lampkin because I don't put my bike away from September to April, he'd be impressed by the North Cape. What I'd want to do though is get Steve to load a plastic fuel can on the back of his CBR and ride there, not encourage thinking that he needs to buy a GS and do the anti-kidnap training. I think titles like extreme and adventure just bring out the people with questionable motives and attitudes?

Andy