Is it worth having the race in a country?
345 competitors and their support vehicles cross the Cardones national park in Argentina, destroy fragile soil, scare the shit out off, or run over local fauna; and of course there are the people from "God's own country" running ofensively loud exhausts (jerks)
All in the name of promoting tourism...Peru and Chile have dropped the Dakar, I wonder how long till it is no more..
Is the Dakar defensible? Does anybody care?

(very roughly, words to this effect were the editorial in La Nacion, one of Buenos Aires's main newspapers, (well respected))

The terrain which is destroyed is minimal. The "Humans destroy" everything chorus has to end and is for the most part nonsnese.
Truly sad two countries who desperately need a boost to their economy fall back to their leftist roots of starvation and a dismal understanding of reality.

Viva la Dakar!

Chile was cancelled due to flooding and Peru withdrew because the emergency services were needed for expected El Nino damage

The Dakar organistation puts a lot of money into the local economies and charitable/environmental projects.The route planning is done in consultation with local authorities to minimise damage from the event

Not sure what you mean by the "gods own country" and offensive exhausts

If you want to get concerned about environmental damage caused by offroading its the recreational side which has the biggest questions to answer

The damage caused around Fort Bou Jerif in Morocco by motorbikes is an embarrassment to all overland travellers imho

No the Dakar should not be banned at all

Its great to see the fun police are out again........

Why ban the Dakar?! As said above it brings a lot of revenue in to the countries is goes through. It is also a great competitive sport...far better than watching grown men kick a bag of wind around for a ridicules sum of money then crying when they fall over

Why not ban everything that people do for fun, recreation and sport then we can all live sad and lonely lives, not interfere with the fauna, destroy fragile soil and pollute the air.............maybe we should even ban breathing as we are all using far to much oxygen.

As for Gods Own Country.......give it a rest...it was boring the first time. One more loud exhaust in a country of loud exhausts aint gunna make a lot of difference. When you come to BKK let me know and I will have some cotton wool ready for your ears

Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

No need to get personal Wayne,

just interested in opinions on the Dakar.
Personally I don't fall on either side of the fence, I enjoy the Dakar but I have also seen the destruction that remains 4 or 5 years after the race.



"Why not ban everything that people do for fun, recreation and sport then we can all live sad and lonely lives, not interfere with the fauna, destroy fragile soil and pollute the air.............maybe we should even ban breathing as we are all using far to much oxygen."

Kind of agree here, but the green guys get in everywhere....


"country of loud exhausts" really?
when did you last visit Bolivia and Argentina?


"..it was boring the first time"
your opinion, mine is that any person like that is an arrogant, self glorifying jerk.
You know that loud exhausts piss people off.....for me the public in Yorks. first got angry with motorcyclists a few miles south of Whitby....remember?? Were you around then?

Yes you are right there is no need to get personal but are you not doing that?

I know loud exhausts p1ss folk off but people will have them, but there is no need to keep bringing them up and pointing fingers.

I might have been around for the Whitby thing depends on what year, things like that don't tend to stick in my head

Not had the privilege of visiting those countries so maybe that was a bit strong, but one more loud exhaust won't make any odds. But having a prolonged dig at other members is also a bit strong!

If certain groups and people had their way we wouldn't do anything except work and sit at home. I am sure that the Dakar does its best to help minimise the damage done and maybe even compensates where needed. But damage is done everywhere everyday it is a fact of life. I believe nature compensates and over comes this in most cases. I could be wrong.
Every time you ride your bike you are helping to ruin something. So maybe we all just sit at home in our armchairs.
Then the site which you joined will be of no use because no one will be over-landing

Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

My credentials..... I have followed the Dakar from Buenos Aires and rode through many Argentine towns with thousands of fans waving and even mobbing me on my Honda NX400. I was well behind the competitors yet, I personally believe the goodwill generated by the Dakar and those who make it happen far surpasses any damage that has or might occur. The deaths of competitors, and there have been few and deaths to spectators are very minimal when compared to, let's say more established sports like football or futball (soccer).

This is not to say even one human life is not worth calling the whole thing off, but it is to say the competitors are well aware of potential danger and the Dakar organizers have, IMHO done their very best to insure the safety of perhaps hundreds of thousands of spectators en route.

Until you yourself have experienced the excitement, in the balls to the wall delight on the faces of thousands of fans waving and shouting encouragement, then you might not know the true value of the Dakar for the competitors and the fans.

And, let us not forget the economic boost experienced countrywide for each country where passes the Dakar. And the boost given to all things motorcycle, and 4X4. I have been blessed to have been able to feel the positive emotion of the Dakar, and look forward very much to following along again.

And the women like the Dakar as much as the men. Of course, this is what I have heard. Birth rates soar around 9 months after the Dakar passes through, but who is keeping track? Would this be a zero sum game or a win win, gee I don't know. (One of the very few comments on sexuality ever posted on the Hubb Pub, sure hope this doesn't start a trend)

xfiltrate

Good to see someone present FACTS here. So both countries will be back hosting Dakar in future.

I like the Dakar but do agree some sensitive areas get damaged. But Dunes can't be hurt so no harm there, even the Garbage trucks can't hurt sand. (Yes, studies by people with college degrees (all lefties I'm sure) have done extensive research into affects off road on Dunes. Negligible damage (none).

But other areas are more sensitive (rivers, streams, foliage and plants) need more regulation. Fact is the French organizers do a HELL OF A GOOD JOB trying to route the event in an "environmentally friendly" way. Is it perfect? No. Does anyone care? Not many locals down in Argentina, Peru', Chile or Bolivia far as I can tell.
But I'm sure the "lefty agitator environmentalists" in cities DO object. As of yet, I doubt they have the strength to ban the event ... but pressure needs to be brought to protect what can be protected. Sustainability. (damn lefty concept)

Orgainizers do change routes to give previous areas time to "heal". If up to local countries, they'd likely not care where it was run. Low level political hacks just want cash. It's French organizers (leftists too no doubt) who take the time to work out best routes and actually KNOW the land.

Dakar brings millions onto these countries, employs a fair amount of people too, so worth it to make it "sustainable". Ruining it would be agin to killing the Goose that lays the golden eggs. $$$$$$$

However, don't think the Dakar will make life easier for over landers riding bikes. Why? Because many will figure you're just another rich Dakar guy with big buck team sponsors (sure guys, add more stickers on your bike ) .... and will charge you accordingly.

Already seen this in Baja .. and it really pisses me off to be thrown in the same pit as Trophy Truck guys with million dollar budgets ... but that is EXACTLY what's happened in Baja.

As far as loud pipe go? I hate them. But let the local folk decide. It's their country. Far as I can tell (from hours of watching videos) they LOVE loud pipes.

But "Jerk" number one would have to be our own beloved Robby Gordon, a dismal failure at his job in the last few years. But the worst thing about Robby is his bad mouthing of everything and everybody has made millions of former fans not only hate him, but also HATE Americans. Unforgivable.
Nothing but bad choices from Robby last few years.

Spot on, and agrees with what I've read on the Dakar.

And if El Nino does turn the whole route into a lake they'll be up against the Eco Dakar if they ship it all back across the Atlantic:

Africa EcoRace

Ahh yes the leties saved everything nonsense, extremist groups create problems, not solve them. The left loves to get credit however the clean air act was shoved through via the Nixon administration via executive order giving birth to the EPA.

So what do lefties do? Well other than paddle out in petroleum made canoes to protest offshore oil rigs, not much, rational thinking is not in there genes. Nor in any extremist line of thinking.
.

As a professional environmentalist (God I hate that term unless you're referring to the beardy, sandal wearing weirdos who want us all to live in caves) and dedicated petrol head I'm not convinced any motorsport can be classed as "Eco"

But still if they can minimise the impact and put on a good good show I'm all for it

"And the women like the Dakar as much as the men. Of course, this is what I have heard. Birth rates soar around 9 months after the Dakar passes through, "



WHAT?? where do the competitors find the energy...after racing all day?

The has been a lot of subjectivity here, and both sides offer a perspective, but unless we hear directly from both sides of the tale directly, we are just repeating other people's opinions. It is interesting to hear from those that have been there though and it gives a good picture of what happens

I think the Dakar brings, not only money and employment to the areas where it travels, but also a great deal of positive possible tourist exposure and I'm sure it helps to bring communities together.

However, environmental damage to support a sport is not OK. Were living in the grown up world now where we need to balance our fun with not destroying important (and usually very niche) habitats.

I'm sure the Dakar organizers put in place a lot of effort to minimize damage. However, all those terrible lefties may be helping with their complaints, perhaps it will help the Dakar people to do even better, year on year? It's all a PR battle really!

In all, I think it is healthy to have an argument for no and yes, it brings about improvements. Keep it going, but I'm not that bothered, you have to look really hard on your TV to get it and if I've got to pay extra for TV......!

I love your profile picture, tell us about it?

Thats me and Bruce P (who's pic it is) taking our Aprilia Pegasos on a bit of a green lane smash and grab on a cold wet day up in the Peak District. We were running a tally for who fell off the most which I lost by a small margin. Every fall needed a little celebration though.

It's amazing where you can (attempt to) get (to) if you have a bike that you don't mind dropping!