My suspicion is when someone votes in a poll it counts as a post and therefore bumps with no apparent post

The real problem here is the fact that you've essentially given access to Paypal to directly debit your (savings?) account without need for confirmation.

This is very dangerous, and I would recommend anyone against using this or anything like direct-debit for this particular reason. You don't have control.

The difference with using a Credit Card is that they act as an intermediatory, giving you some level of protection against fraud, criminality and other. You pay for the service but at least a Credit Card doesn't have access to your money.

I haven't had any problems with PayPal but I am ALWAYS wary of where my money goes.

Oh and incase it wasn't clear, STAY AWAY from DIRECT DEBIT !!

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TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net

+1

It's a useful if expensive service

Correct.

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

"Stuck between a rock and a hardplace" - that sums up Ebay/PayPal.

Most people purchase items from Ebay as they are often cheaper than other online retailers, or the item is used and you get to buy it for a fraction of the original price.

The problem with Ebay is that it is monopolistic as it tries very VERY hard to ensure you only use its bought-and-paidfor PayPal payment service. As a new seller you can ONLY accept PayPal payments, and even with a feedback score of 104 (as of today) I cant decline to use paypal. Hows that for monopolistic business practises.

This is OK for the buyer, but as a seller this is a problem. The buyer can at anytime within 60 days of paying for the item "dispute" the transaction - either "the item hasnt arrived" or "its not as described" or "its damaged in transit" etc etc etc. As soon as the buyer files a claim, PayPal immediately remove the purchased money from the sellers account - irrespective of whether he is in credit with his paypal balance or not - then they start their investigation! In otherwords "guilty until proven innocent". More than 99% of the time PayPal finds in favour of the buyer and refunds their money and the seller is left out of pocket and without the item! For those sellers who say in their auction text that they "wont accept paypal" or "cash on collection only", if PayPal finds out about that text (and they even have automated search software bots to locate phrases like that) they will cancel your auction and mark a warning against your seller account as it breaches their monopolistic terms and conditions.

As said earlier in the thread, unless you absolutely have to, always use a creditcard with PayPal. PayPal is NOT as secure as you might think and the number of hacked pp accounts increases every day. You as a buyer have some protection is you use a creditcard but NONE if you have PayPal connected directly to your bank account. For those who have a points-generating creditcard or a cash-back creditcard like me, it also makes sense to use the creditcard for PP payments as you earn whilst you spend (just zero the balance every month because of the interest).

I believe there is a website called paypalsucks.com or similar. I use Ebay and therefore use PayPal to buy lots of items, but when I sell on Ebay its after I have tried local classified ads for forum-direct-posts. I am ALWAYS nervous selling and accepting PayPal payments.

Many Paypal users don't know how to use their accounts properly so when something happens and they complain it's often caused out of their own ignorance of how a Paypal account works and how the account holder should manage it.
I've had people accusing me of taking money from their Paypal account without authority because they are too stupid to understand that when they click 'Pay Now' it means just that - they are paying now..... They then fire off very aggressive emails threatening legal action and demanding immediate refunds when in fact it is their own stupidity that has created the situation. They often don't know about the dispute resolution proceess provided by Paypal. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to use the internet.

I'd like to see Paypal cheaper of course, who wouldn't, but as someone else already pointed out you can send personal money and it's free - then you can that withdraw it for free....where's the problem with that?

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...on the road to nowhere...

Biking roads by bikers for bikers www.bestbikingroads.com

Hi,

The problem is i think they bock mony back very easy. I think all the bayer has to do is to klick he did not get his item or if he signed he got it that it was broken. Then if the seller doesnt have a tracking code his money is gone and if he has the code they tell the bayer to ship the used Item back even there was no return accepted in the transaktion. The seller is allways the looser here. His money will be gone and he even payed for shiping one way...

They also blocked my accound when i needet it...when i loged in from different countrys while traveling. Thats where Paypal would make sence because onlinebanking doesnt work if your cellphone cant roam to get the TAN SMS. As long as you can use onlinebanking, there is no need to use Paypal.

So what? Tobi

+ 1 .. nice writeup .. saves me typing pretty much the same thing.

above is why I stopped selling on ebay. buying is still OK because everything is slanted in favor of buyer. ebay has set up seller to screwed at will by buyer.

sellers are at the mercy of dishonest buyers. sellers have little to no recourse if buyer should decide to screw you. all buyer has to do is claim item is not as described.... you funds are frozen then sent back to buyer. who then has your goods and his $$$ back.

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R90S, R80G/S PD

I've used PayPal for years and have had no troubles, either buying or selling, with the exception of 1 seller slow to ship. A week before losing my ability to retrieve funds, I let him know I was going to do it in 2 days. He shipped the item the same day I sent the email...

I usually keep a small amount of funds, less than 100.00USD in my account. Anything above that draws from credit card, which gives me a dual layer of dispute. I only use PayPal as a second to last resort, the last being wire transfer.

I also believe that the vast majority of people out there are generally honest, but that doesn't mean I would proceed without caution...

PayPal works well. No one can "take" money from my account, but as I said above, I limit what I keep in there.

Regards,

Rey.

I have used PayPal more than a dozen times with no problems. I'm assuming because I've never opened an account with them. I simply purchase goods using my credit card on file. I believe having a prepaid account with them is not a good idea.

I don't have a pay pall account. But I use E bay to buy. Find a friend who has an account and ask them to buy it for you. That what I do. Then get the seller to send it to you. To pay my friend I just deposit money in to his account at my local town. Work's well for me.
John933

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To buy petrol in Europe. Pull up at station. Wait. Get out a 20 Euro note, then ask someone to fill up the bike. Give person money. Ride away. Simple.

It's moved on a bit since then - to about a 2/3 positive feedback.

I use ebay much less nowadays, for selling, because of the way that ebay changed their rules a few years ago (as per posts 35 and 38 above). These rules have not caused me any problems but I just lost interest when the ebay system was skewed so heavily in favour of the buyer - so, nowadays, I tend to use it for buying only; of course, for that to work there still have to be some sellers on ebay!

The type of scam in the thread below is very likely based on the current ebay system:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...xample-s-72903

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Dave

we will be closing our ebay shop soon. A few times we have been caught by people receiving their item, then claiming the money back through paypal. They can enter a variety of excuses such as the item was not received (even though they had left positive feedback) or the item is not as described (it was, they are new items, sold many many times previously).

Paypal then refund their money, they keep the item. It's an easy way for them to obtain free goods, paypal basically endorses it and does nothing to protect the seller.

Paypal and ebays's attitude seems to be the buyer is always right, the seller is always wrong. Selling via paypal is now a high risk activity.

The other reason is, the fees are now just getting too high

I lost my money with Paypal UK and the item i purchased. I pre-paid for a 350 pound item i liked on a website - when it arrived it was a load of rubbish or technically drastically wrongly described - i informed the buyer and demanded a refund - he gave an address to return it, i went there and it was bogus - he promised to collect on a number of occassions and never turned up - he then claimed to Paypal it was not wrongly described - we both submitted evidence and Paypal found in my favour and awarded a refund - Paypal sent notification the sellers bank informed them there was insufficient funds in his account - seller then claimed i failed to return item - i sent it insured by carrier - he claimed to Paypal parts were missing, it was damaged even though he signed that it was ok and i was attempting to defraud him - Paypal then informed me he had supplied evidence that parts were missing - i told them we had witnesses and photos to prove everything was returned but they would not allow me to submit this proof - I lodged an appeal with Paypal with lengthy submissions and after several weeks a few words came back saying the refund was not granted - 3 months + later i have not had one penny refunded and the seller has the item and will not reply to me how i can get it back if i so wished - i was informed by sellers family and colleagues he had heart attack and i am responsible for that because of hassle i caused him - he continues in his own name to list the same bogus item on ebay. As far as i am concerned Paypal supported him in defrauding me.

I had an identical experience to the OP and despite checking account transactions, it was never clear just who started the problem - the seller, paypal or my credit card supplier - or all three. Stupid thing was the purchase was for a whole $8.55 Doh!

Also like the OP, being on the road with no access to original documents, it was impossible to follow the 4 steps to the end. I ended up writing paypal a reasonably polite, but nevertheless, what was very obviously a pretty abusive letter and they immediately withdrew the freeze and reinstated everything.

The trouble is, being constantly on the move and with fewer businesses wanting to deal with overseas customers and fewer wanting the risks of foreign credit cards, paypal is a bit like water - there might be alternatives but you risk dying of thirst if you try living without it.

My credit card bank(Citibank) is the worst for these random acts of bastardry for no reason. We have purchases and monthly payments to and from places all over the world - often from opposite sides of the globe on the same day - and they always wait until I am in the highlands of PNG or in the middle of Alaska before putting a hold on my card for suspicious activity (always involving a piddling amount) and then phoning my Australian contact phone to let me know - despite being told many times we don't have a phone when travelling and email is the only way. Then because they can't contact me, they cancel the card. Even stupider is I can always then make the purchase with my wife's card which is an ancilliary card on my account. Double Doh!!!

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Tony
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