Utter, utter nonsense. What about the many riders, particularly from Germany and France, and to a smaller extent from late to the game English speaking areas setting off on big, beyond Starbucks, trips on bikes like the BMW R80g/s (first sold in 1981) or Yamaha xt500 (released in the mid 1970s) to name just 2 very popular models? There's an entire universe of bike travel going back to well beyond when the 2 lovies were even born. It really didn't all start with Ewen and his unemployed carpet fitter mate

Much closer to the mark, but still no cigar.


Regarding the whole big/little bike argument. Big western manufacturers will sell what the market thinks it wants, based the junk marketing the punters will swallow.

These manufacturers make the most money on after sales offerings like servicing. And on finance plans because new bike buyers can't/ don't want to afford to pay the full price in cash today.

In the next 20/25 years, the "western" bike market will be dead, along with their current baby boomer customers. KTM, it seems, has chosen to push up the daisys first. I predict huge discounts soon to get their unsold '23 and '24 vintage motors out of the door and stave off bankruptcy for a little while at least.

Based on primary research last year in India and South East Asia, the future of biking per se is in small bikes of 100 to 200 or so cc in Asia, also where they're built. Everyone, unless mega rich by local standards, is on motorised or electric 2 wheels.

Western birth rates are going through the floor, young westerners don't ride and the bike riding boomers won't be around much longer. At the other end of the spectrum e.g., India's population is now 1.45 bn, up 50% in the last 25 years.

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Absolutely, and it goes more than 50 years further back than the R80GS or the XT500.

Early Harley-Davidson models were designed for dirt roads as that was what most roads in America were like at the time. Hence the introduction of the 1919 Sport Model which was designed for 'rough stuff'.

Round about 1920 HD introduced a military model for the US Army, and even the BSA M20 ridden by my father in the Royal Signals in WWII predates BMW's GS range by over 30 years.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Indeed. My correction above was very much aimed at Mr/Ms/They Flop.

One of my Glaswegian grandfather's stories of WW2 was soon after DDay, riding a "borrowed" BMW bike through German lines from Normandy to Brittany to see his wife and son for the first time. Ernest was one of the first British Commandos on Sword beach very early on 6th June '44. (He didn't have time to hang out chatting to the Germans at Ouistreham as Pegasus bridge down the road needed holding).

On his ride westwards, at one point, he ended up in a ditch after a Spitfire straffed him! So kinda off road for a few yards

Usually he didn't talk much about the war. The guy left more than footprints on the beach at Dunkirk

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Those would both be classed as small and lightweight trail-capable bikes in today's market (kinda like the Scram 440 now), and neither of them were advertised as machines with which to cross continents with factory luggage solutions as an optional extra.

Long Way Round really sold the idea to the masses that in order to go seriously long distance you needed a 250kg+ 70hp+ bike with heated cup holders simply because it was shown on the BBC and around the world. That's when the idea of motorcycle adventure riding in it's currently marketed and packaged form entered the zeitgeist, to the point where even my Mum knew what it meant.

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FreeBSD fan since before it was cool ...

I was just going to share these 2 pictures, but the system requires me to write words. So I have.

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Fair enough, you've got me there

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FreeBSD fan since before it was cool ...

Not that it matters much but old bikes were usually "dry weight" while modern bikes are "wet weight". The difference in weight between old and new is usually not as much as official numbers might indicate.

Horses for courses.
If I were going on a round the world trip, and planned on keeping on asphalt all the way, and had lots of luggage, and could afford it, I'd take top of line BMW/KTM/Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki/etc at any time.
If planning for few unpaved roads, with less luggage, and on a lower budget, a midsize would be my choice.
If planning for dirtroads, with small luggage, and on a shoestring budget, a CRF300Rally/etc would be my choice.
If planning to try every small path that looks nice SuperCub/etc would be my choice.

The actual bike chosen would depend on availability.

I for one have steered away from Gs's in earnest. I saw a RTW ride report of a young German plumber who did that and had a bad accident in Delhi, the resultant cost had him actually had him ordering parts from Germany cos they were cheaper than in India as they're classed as some sort of "super luxury" item.
Not only that it could only be repaired in a BMW franchise which was nowhere near where the accident took place. No thanks.

The super tenere is a bullet proof engined-long in the tooth design that would be far easier to repair, and I'm guessing cheaper too.
Why a 1200cc behemoth? Well it's about weight anf space capacity and the ability of the bike to carry it all.

Just over a year ago I did a trip across France, around the perimeter of Spain and back again, 4200 miles in 3 1/2 weeks, two up with full camping gear on a Harley Sportster with my adult son pillion.
You couldn't have got a fag paper anywhere in the luggage and we even had to eschew biking boots for Berghaus climbing boots as we didn't have space, something I was nervous about the whole trip.
Making me more nervous was the knowledge that I was over the GVW by a long chalk, not so much the handling as the bike I thought could take it but if an accident happened and they figured out that I was at fault for overloading...

I'd reccied that route the year before on my Super Tenere with a GS'er from a forum and over the trip all he could do is stop at every available site there was another GS'er to compare notes so I can understand why there is a dislike of them, however I got to say he was a better motorcyclist than me and I am probably biased, but given how many GS's there are in Europe it appears to be like a select club that I for one am glad to not be a member of, never have run with the crowd.

Regarding smaller bikes, I had a Honda 90 (pre-Cub days) in the 80's and used to hundreds of miles trips on it and had a blast.
In fact there is a young lady on YT not only doing a RTW on a cub but doing as much of it TET as she can, so no solid argument one way or the other.

For me it was simple: Can it carry a lot of weight, is the engine reliable, is there no chain to lubricate/replace, is it NOT a GS?
A Super Tenere was the only choice that was affordable IMO.

Yeah. You wouldn’t want to ride one of those unreliable GS’s…..

btw - the ‘luxury’ tax is based on price.

A GS and a Tenere 1200 are within a couple thousand dollars, so the rider in India would have been screwed on either.

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If only BMW brought back the GS r80 ... wow wow

I was wondering when someone was going to mention Long Way Round in this thread. Surprisingly, it took a while.

I think Long Way Around turned out to be one of those marketing events that returned a million percent on what BMW invested. The R1200gs turned into the most sold big bike in its segment in North American, Europe, Asia, and South America.

Since the 1950's I think motorcyclist's have been addicted to getting the next year's edition bike with 50 cc more displacement. I think that trend continued up until 1200 cc's. In my opinion BMW sold R1200's to everyone who wanted one. That customer might have bought up to 2 R1200's but like other's have mentioned, the R1200 is a great bike on the highway, or a great 2 up bike, but isn't really suitable for off road other than riding off the highway and onto the dirt to get to your tent spot. I think a lot of R1200 guy's decided to downsize in cc's because they are getting older and the R1200 is a heavy and tall bike.

Another factor is declining economic opportunities in Western societies. I think the West kind of shot itself in the foot with allowing capitalism to run away with itself. The erosion of the middle class is changing discretionary income purchases like 1200cc motorcycles. Most people who own 1200cc motorcycles hardly ever put any miles on them anyway.

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http://www.journeyrider.net Latin America blog (07-8)

If we are talking about the UK most people don't put many miles on their bikes full stop regardless of the cc . Manufacturers repeatably put more and more tech on their bike........most riders either don't use it or have no idea what it does . If I got a tenner for every tft dash I've set up for customers i could retire . This pushes up the bikes price........obviously . It got to the point that traders wouldn't take in the V4 Mutleys.......no one could insure them . Bikes are in truth an expensive hobby......as much as I love them , mine would b the first to go if things got tight .

Couple of things.

Pick the correct tool for the job. Here in Australia 60% of our roads are dirt, which is over 550’000 kms ….. (like 300k miles?)

And most of your big cc bikes, GS, AT, Vstrom, super tenere etc are usually sold with reasonably high mileage. Simply because for touring here they make sense.

Like my low mileage GSA

Which I sold, for the very reason you suggest - too heavy with a knee replacement. But gosh darn i miss it.

@Homers GSA,

I miss my Tiger 800. Tiger 800 are top heavy and with my back bad I had to get a lighter bike.
And lighter means smaller cc too.

And I do all my long distances touring overseas where I fly and ride. All all the bike rentals are smaller bikes anyway.

I think the R1200 is a neat bike to experience owning. I had 3 R1200 gsa's back when they came out, but I only bought them to flip. If I had the money to have more than 1 bike than I would probably buy one. I got to ride one of them through the Rocky Mountains on the highway and it was a memorable experience. But, it only gets 40 mpg, is a tall bike, weighs over 230 kilos, has the final drive reliability issue, probably is hard to ride 2 up with how tall it is, I have knee problems too and don't think I would buy another one because of that.

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http://www.journeyrider.net Latin America blog (07-8)