The thread never went away, and I see 21 likes at the top of the thread.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

__________________
Bruce Clarke - 2020 Yamaha XV250

Funny. Same here!

No, Mezo is right. The thread disappeared for a minute. The admin probably pulled it for review.

why was ta-rider banned again?


mika

I'd also like to know why ta rider (Toby) was banned. Yes, he can be a PITA at times, but always presents a different perspective, right or wrong. What HUBB rules did he violate?

I'm thinking Toby may not have priced out other forum's Rally events recently. ADV Rider is NOT FREE! They ALL cost money ... and for the most part they cost A LOT more than HUBB rallies.

ADV has both officially sponsored rallies and many others promoted by members. ALL cost money and prices for most have gone WAY up over last 10 years ... as have ALL rallies, including HUBB.

The first HUBB rally I attended in BC Canada was $35 for the weekend. (IIRC)
That was back in '03 or so. Sure, things are more expensive everywhere. What can we do about that? Welcome to our wonderful Capitalist world!

Grant and Susan give a lot to rally participants ... and unlike ADV Rider, it's not all about presenting a College Frat Party skunk Drunk affair.

I haven't donated in a few years ... and when I did become a contributing member in the past, I had an issue with a former moderator ... which resulted first in me being banned, but then over ruled after admin intervention.

But my "Contributing Member" status was removed with 6 months still remaining and was never restored. Not a big deal and I imagine that moderating "moderators" takes a silly amount of time and effort.

Getting RTW overlanders to agree and get along is harder than herding Cats.
We are all rebels in a sense, probably don't agree on much.

Its pretty easy to get banned on HU - post something "controversial" or that a moderator doesn't like or agree with. Some of the mods on this site are real dickheads (there - see how long I last now....).

Not sure what Toby's problem is in this case; he's free not to contribute if he doesn't want to and free to organize his own meeting if he wants.

Some rallies give free admission to travelers on the road on a trip too (dunno if the HUBB ones do as I've never been to one)....

ta-rider - Toby - deleted his own post, which deletes the thread, and wipes the likes, so please relike!

We decided to reinstate, partly because so many of you rebutted his comments so eloquently! We aren't hiding anything, we've always been as clear as we possibly can about finances.

I decided to ban him after a lengthy series of PM's with him, where he, well let's say he got up my nose repeatedly, and totally wasted my time trying to explain - at great length - the realities of the web, websites, and free lunches. He suggested that I must be driving a Porsche because we charge so much. He also requested that we let his girl friend in for free to events, including food and camping, because she's only there to keep him company! For information, Toby has NEVER paid a registration fee to attend an HU meeting, he's always come as a presenter or some other free category (kind-hearted organizers!), so free entry and t-shirt. He may have paid for food and camping since we moved the Germany event to an actual campground instead of a field behind a pub, and perhaps he thinks that should be free too, but surprisingly venues and caterers disagree!!

ta-rider violated rules - total waste of my time and a PITA. He drives the mods up the wall too - you don't see the stuff he posts that we get rid of.

Re your "Contributing Member" status disappearing - a function of the software is that when you're banned your status is set to "Banned" and when the ban period is over you are set to Registered User - usually. In theory and sometimes you get your old status back. Bug - probably, but I can't figure it out. All you really had to do was send me a note and remind me, and I'd have sorted it immediately. We DO appreciate your support Pat!


Herding cats - you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, but it's a LOT! We have survived for over 20 years now, when most forums have died, generally because of insufficient moderation. I spend time on forums for forum owners, and a frequent subject of discussion is "how much moderation is enough?". Without going into great and boring detail, if you're not on top of it and nip problems in the bud, it will get away and cause huge problems and people leaving in droves because they don't agree with one side of the other - doesn't matter which.

Often we are accused of over-moderating, BUT we are almost as often accused of under moderating! As ALWAYS, you can't please everyone, so we aim for a middle ground, with a basic philosophy of "don't be an asshole" and you're fine. If you make someone mad, you're probably being an asshole, so expect to get an infraction / warning.

"Controversial" no, I disagree completely with that - now, HOW you post it could get you in trouble, yes. You can have any opinion you like, it's when you call people names because they disagree with your opinions that you cross the line.

As for dickhead moderators, it's all in the eye of the beholder. And while we have had problem moderators in the far past, those we have now, and for a number of years, are amazingly good, put in a huge amount of effort to keep this place spam-free, asshole free, and generally supporting YOU, so that it's a place you want to come back to and enjoy, and learn, and help others in the HU Community of travellers.

re Toby - that's only the tip of the iceberg re annoyances from Toby. He's been banned, warned, educated at greeeeaaat length many times. I've easily spent a couple of solid days on him, never mind the angst, lost sleep thinking of how to deal with him etc. NOT WORTH THE EFFORT of educating him.

Re free entry for travellers - while I get the intent, since ALL of our people are theoretically travellers, and many travel hundreds or thousands of miles to participate, where do we draw the line? Too hard, and since the ones on the road are in theory benefiting the most from the site, perhaps they should be happy to contribute a little to help keep the site going? IF they do a presentation, they get in free, AND a free top quality synthetic travel shirt, which they're probably in need of! Generally we find most are happy to pay, fully realising and understanding the value and economics, but we have little patience for those who think the world should pay their way "because they're travelling" and expect a free ride everywhere. Sorry, can't do that. WE can't travel for pleasure anymore BECAUSE we spend ALL our time AND money running the website and organizing the travellers meetings, thus supporting the travellers in a huge way.
THAT IS OUR CONTRIBUTION!

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Given the very low amount of traffic on this site in comparison with other forums that have been around this long, I would expect that keeping things friendly would be a priority here so that new members aren't scared off ornery long-timers that are still hanging around.

Toby was quick to blast people that ride BMWs (or full size ADV bikes) as travel bikes in the downsizing thread, which comes across as ignorant and argumentative. Someone that assumes to categorize and stereotype all people based upon their motorcycle choice and then goes on to belittle them as being not able to have a real adventure is just plain obnoxious.

People like that do not contribute to the health of a forum.

QUOTES ABOVE


Really...!!!!????

Get your wallet out chap and show some appreciation. I’ve lost count of the times this site has done me good. At 35 years of age you still got a long way to go...!!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=MEZ;583725]
If he doesn't see the value in contributing then that's his choice to make. Leave it alone.

On the other hand, I can make a strong case as to why I chose to contribute. This site offers, to me, a wealth of information that I feel, if removed, would be a tremendous and irreplaceable loss. Yes, you could probably find answers by visiting a dozen other sites and getting tidbits of info here and there, but to have all of the information and content in one centralized location, and have a community to back it, is where I see the value. I am not looking for a finished "product" as that is unrealistic to me. I see my contribution as an investment in this place to keep the information bank open for more deposits from future travelers.

This site will only grow unless we stop watering it. We're investing in the future.

It was your post that i liked originally. and i knew the thread had vanished because i search all new post having my morning cuppa, but its all been explained now.

Mezo.

That's mighty generous of you! :smarts:
"product"? So that's how you see HUBB and Horizon's? A "product" to be bought and sold? And I suppose we readers here are nothing more than potential "paying customers" in your scheme?
Good luck with that business model!

You seem to contradict yourself several times in your LONG rant!
(I thought I rambled on! ... are you sure you're not Irish? Man, you can talk!)

In what way is Horizons not a "premium" service? So what other travel web site DOES offer a "premium" service, in your opinion?

Innovation? Have you ever seen Grant's DVD series for new travelers? IMO, those are innovations at a premium level. But what they bring is also EXCEPTIONAL.

Tell me where else can you gather with experts and pick their brains and hear their stories ... first hand?

"Added value", (man, you want a HELL OF A LOT for free! )

So, it's not enough for you to hear presentations IN PERSON from some of the most experienced and innovative motorcycle traveler legends in the world in your presence?

Grant has managed to bring the most important travelers in the world to his rallies at one time or the other over the last decade or more. Everyone from Ted Simon, Simon Gandolphi, Austin Vince, Lois Pryce, to Peter Forewood, Greg Frazier ... and dozens more travel luminaries over the years. Legends in the RTW travel community ... nearly ALL have appeared at HUBB events.
Look it up man, IMO, about as "Premium" as it gets.

If you can't learn and gain inspiration from these guys, then you may be brain dead.

Are you mainly looking to find a way to make a quick buck here on HUBB?
You could be the guy ta rider is afraid of ... so he rants on regards the crass commercialization of the Adventure riding World.

But, IMO, Grant has steered HU away from this ... but the result is a small forum, but an important one, IMO.

I've seen this change coming on 20 years, and like ta rider, not all that happy. Not all travelers want to figure out how to make money from travel or from a web site or from other travelers ... and rallies that feature $500K USD UniMog's are not my cup of tea either.

So, you're looking for business opportunities here, right? Fact is, most motorcycle travelers simply want to travel a bit, indulge in other cultures, see the sites, take photos, chill out and relax, renew and de-stress a bit ... NOT make a bundle of cash off other travelers.

I'm not a fan of venture capitalist types, sorry ... and hate to think of ADV Travel and HUBB as a "product" ... but I guess we are to some.

For a big rally that gathers a lot of local hobby riders, it makes sense to give free admission to passing overlanders - they become an attraction, part of the programming, part of what sells tickets to others.

But consider the quality level of a gathering where overlanders have to pay the regular price because most of the participants are overlanders anyway. I think that's the kind of gathering I would prefer to attend...

(Personal experience: I help organize a local convention for fans of Asian youth culture. I also host similar conventions in nearby countries. The big ones give discounted or free admission to performing cosplayers, because more performances mean bigger audience ticket sales. My convention, which is small, cozy, and densely packed with activities, does not - because our audience *is* our performing community!)

The last job in the world I wish to have? is a moderator on a motorbike forum.

You damned if you do and you're damned if you don't?

Lots of forums have two tiers of membership. Ordinary members have no access to PM or emails or certain value-added sections of files and information, POI files and the like. Full members pay a few pounds/dollars per year and get access to the lot. The owner could also recognise the value of certain members who are mostly givers of information that enhances the overall value of the forum and grant full membership at zero cost.

That way the site owners have a big incentive to keep things ticking over to encourage members to pay for the upgrade.

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

I think Tony Lee has point about finding a new strategy to encourage people to contribute wih money.

As I'm typing this and based on the stats of active users, there are about 4000 UNREGISTERED users using this website at the moment. They do use a lot of the servers ressources. Of course some of them are registered user that don't log in.
If the traffic of those 4000 people is not good enough to sustain revenu to pay for the extra servers ressources, maybe they should have a limited access and reduce the servers cost at the same time.

Also covering just the operation expenses is not enough. Grant, Susan and who ever is supporting the website should get some money to cover their time.

Patrick