Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Chat Forum > The HUBB PUB
The HUBB PUB Chat forum - no useful content required!

BUT the basic rules of polite and civil conduct which everyone agreed to when signing up for the HUBB, will still apply, though moderation will be a LITTLE looser than elsewhere on the HUBB.
Photo by Hendi Kaf, in Cambodia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Hendi Kaf,
in Cambodia



View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the E.U. ?
Yes 109 50.00%
No 46 21.10%
No.. But things MUST change 38 17.43%
I don't care 14 6.42%
Undecided 11 5.05%
Voters: 218. This poll is closed

Like Tree444Likes

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #316  
Old 24 Feb 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman View Post
So, it's neither a reason to stay in nor a reason to leave.
It means that we can stand on our own two feet and that the EU finds the UK useful much more than the UK has a use for the EU.
Perhaps our PMs' recent negotiation did not recognise that with sufficient robustness.



It is necessary to bear in mind that nations do not have friends, just interests.
Further, those interests change with both time and circumstances; for instance, we have not always been "friendly" with the USA despite all the hype about a "special relationship".
Some historians would say that we nearly went to war with the latter in 1928 which was the post-WW1 period/pre-WW2 when the aim of the USA was to bring down the British Empire.
Around that period one of the closest allies of the UK was Japan which, as another island nation located off the shores of a continent, had similarities with the UK.

The point is that friends are temporary and interests are rather less temporary but still not even close to permanent.
IMO, I can see no successor to the nation state, despite the rise of globalisation, power-blocs (see earlier posts about aspects of them), multi-national corporations et al.
__________________
Dave
  #317  
Old 24 Feb 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
Best of the best no less

Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
We seem to have failed as a potential France or Germany because we don't play the EU games that well.

Andy
My thought has been that we can be a nation that lies somewhere between the examples of Japan and Singapore (as earlier post).
But we can't do what France, in particular, does within the EU - a few years ago it had more cases against it in the EU "system of appeal" (I don't remember what that is called) than any other country of the EU.
France simply ignores what it doesn't agree with.

In contrast, the UK has the best of bureaucrats who revel in "gold plating" the rules and regulations laid down by authorities and enforcing them to the letter of the law and the powers devolved to those wee job-worthies (we have all come across them!).
The best of the best no less.
__________________
Dave
  #318  
Old 24 Feb 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 679
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate', a highly vocal minority who promote leaving have failed to provide;
  • Why in particular the EU is bad and what it needs to change;
  • How the UK will be better off leaving the EU;
  • How power is exercised in the UK and how this is affected by EU membership;
  • Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits of the loss of EU membership;
  • Any citation of specific EU legislation which they disagree with;

i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe.

  #320  
Old 24 Feb 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
This is what the European Commission has lined up for Europe.
The negotiations are secret and the relevant papers will remain so for 30 years.
Note who is suing who right now with respect to similar agreements in force for the Americas.

The US-EU Free Trade Agreement Could Affect 'Every Aspect of Our Lives':-

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/anti...sts-london-127

Note to the UK PM:
Best get this referendum out of the way asap before the TTIP is signed off for the EU.
ps
The article is about 18 months old.
The Trans-Pacific Partnership mentioned therein is now signed into force and Pres Obama is quite proud of that - but, he's leaving at the end of this year.
PM Cameron has also declared that he is leaving, sometime.
__________________
Dave
  #321  
Old 24 Feb 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Cornwall, in the far southwest of England, UK
Posts: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld View Post
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate' ..

.. i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe.
Well, I have to agree with you. I'm really torn here .. and sat on the proverbial fence. And there was me thinking that I was a dyed-in-the-wool 'out' voter.

My head is telling me 'stay in' .. but my heart still says 'out'.

If the Referendum were tomorrow, I would probably vote with my heart.

120 days remaining to make up my mind, one way or the other.

This is sooooo important too, especially for the next couple (or more) generations. I hope I /we get it right for their sakes.
  #322  
Old 24 Feb 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 679
How do you imagine we'll be better off without the EU and what is it exactly that you feel is having a negative impact on the UK under the current terms of EU membership?
  #323  
Old 24 Feb 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: East Yorkshireman...in the Chum Phae area, Thailand
Posts: 1,346
Found this an interesting read

UK and the EU: Better off out or in? - BBC News
  #324  
Old 25 Feb 2016
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post

Having only briefly skimmed through that article I noticed flaws:

52% UK-EU trade, which other sources state it's near 70%. Correct facts not fear, unbalanced.

Only 36 out of the FTSE 100 business leaders signed an open letter, the remaining 2/3rds state they'll be unaffected.

FTA, defence, immigration,investment and welfare will all be self governed. The best of a worse deal will be a reformed EU if we're lucky...


Sent from my MoJ mobile tagging device
  #325  
Old 25 Feb 2016
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 32
The way things are progressing, particularly on the refugee issue, one can't help but wondering if when of the UK referendum the EU will still be in existence...

- In Hungary a referendum (URRAY, Mr. Orban!)
- Austria plus the Visegrad countries joined efforts to close the borders to refugees
- Greece threatens to block all decisions concerning the refugee crisis and recalls the Greek Ambassador to Viena.
- Luxembourg's foreign minister, in desbelief for what his eyes see says "The outlook is gloomy ... We have no policy any more. We are heading into anarchy."

And this just in the last couple of days! Oh dear...

Things are getting terribly interesting!


  #326  
Old 26 Feb 2016
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4
Scarper quick

The problem with the EU is that it is an ideological project which keeps slamming into the hard facts of its own political realities.
Kind of like a drunk with his keys in the pub car-park after kicking out time, repeatedly fumbling with the locked door of the wrong car.
Eventually he will manage to get into his own car and crash it on the way home.
How many others will be killed in the process is the only outstanding question...
Square pegs & round holes... the whole thing.


(Brits bought property and ran businesses in Spain and the Med long before the EU came along, and they will do long after its gone)
  #327  
Old 26 Feb 2016
Wildman's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Garden of England
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld View Post
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate', a highly vocal minority who promote leaving have failed to provide;
  • Why in particular the EU is bad and what it needs to change;
  • How the UK will be better off leaving the EU;
  • How power is exercised in the UK and how this is affected by EU membership;
  • Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits of the loss of EU membership;
  • Any citation of specific EU legislation which they disagree with;

i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe.

I'm sure they'll soon produce some cogent arguments as to why we should leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottym24 View Post
The problem with the EU is that it is an ideological project which keeps slamming into the hard facts of its own political realities.
Kind of like a drunk with his keys in the pub car-park after kicking out time, repeatedly fumbling with the locked door of the wrong car.
Eventually he will manage to get into his own car and crash it on the way home.
How many others will be killed in the process is the only outstanding question...
Square pegs & round holes... the whole thing.


(Brits bought property and ran businesses in Spain and the Med long before the EU came along, and they will do long after its gone)
__________________
Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
  #328  
Old 26 Feb 2016
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Back in the Garage..regrouping.
Posts: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld View Post
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate', a highly vocal minority who promote leaving have failed to provide;
  • Why in particular the EU is bad and what it needs to change;
  • How the UK will be better off leaving the EU;
  • How power is exercised in the UK and how this is affected by EU membership;
  • Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits of the loss of EU membership;
  • Any citation of specific EU legislation which they disagree with;

i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe.

One question that the pro EU brigade do not and will not face up to is.....It's an unelected, unaccountable dictatorship that can not even be honest enough to produce accounts. Show me one set of audited accounts...go on !!!!!

It is not unable but unwilling to produce accounts....just like any other bent company skimming off the top.

I don't want to live in a federal fascist state, which the EU will become.
  #329  
Old 26 Feb 2016
Wildman's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Garden of England
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheels03 View Post
One question that the pro EU brigade do not and will not face up to is.....It's an unelected, unaccountable dictatorship that can not even be honest enough to produce accounts. Show me one set of audited accounts...go on !!!!!

It is not unable but unwilling to produce accounts....just like any other bent company skimming off the top...
Despite the rhetoric and non-sequiturs, you actually raise a very interesting point. There should be more public accountability of the EU, the Commission and all of it's bodies and functions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheels03 View Post
... I don't want to live in a federal fascist state, which the EU will become.
Nor do I but how will the EU become a, "Federal, facist state"?
__________________
Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
  #330  
Old 26 Feb 2016
Tim Cullis's Avatar
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London and Granada Altiplano
Posts: 3,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld View Post
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate', a highly vocal minority who promote leaving have failed to provide;
  • Why in particular the EU is bad and what it needs to change;
  • How the UK will be better off leaving the EU;
  • How power is exercised in the UK and how this is affected by EU membership;
  • Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits of the loss of EU membership;
  • Any citation of specific EU legislation which they disagree with;
I wouldn't categorise the 'leave' posters as being a minority, and you've also been pretty vocal in your challenges of other people's posts.

I think the first of your 'demands' above has been more than adequately explored and I don't see why anyone should jump through hoops answering your other points until you first explain:
  • Why in particular the EU is good and why it doesn't needs to change;
  • How the UK will be better off staying the EU;
  • How power is exercised in the UK and how this is benefitted by EU membership;
  • Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits from EU membership;
  • Any citation of specific EU legislation which you agree with;
__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live,"
Irving Mather (1892-1966)
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 16 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 16 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can I leave alone my French number plate motorbike in USA for 6 months? Worldbees North America 5 24 May 2014 02:38
Buying US-registered bike in Uruguay, will have title, can I leave with it? SenorBoludo South America 8 16 Apr 2014 07:27
Emergency! Need to leave bikes in Honduras. StepThruPanAm Central America and Mexico 4 25 Feb 2013 14:45
Can I leave Brasil without my bike and then come back? ReeceNZ South America 4 27 Jan 2012 01:11

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Ecuador June 13-15
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Date TBC
Ecuador: Date TBC
Romania: Date TBC
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:37.