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View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the E.U. ?
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Yes
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109 |
50.00% |
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No
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46 |
21.10% |
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No.. But things MUST change
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38 |
17.43% |
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I don't care
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14 |
6.42% |
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Undecided
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11 |
5.05% |
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24 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman
So, it's neither a reason to stay in nor a reason to leave.
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It means that we can stand on our own two feet and that the EU finds the UK useful much more than the UK has a use for the EU.
Perhaps our PMs' recent negotiation did not recognise that with sufficient robustness.
It is necessary to bear in mind that nations do not have friends, just interests.
Further, those interests change with both time and circumstances; for instance, we have not always been "friendly" with the USA despite all the hype about a "special relationship".
Some historians would say that we nearly went to war with the latter in 1928 which was the post-WW1 period/pre-WW2 when the aim of the USA was to bring down the British Empire.
Around that period one of the closest allies of the UK was Japan which, as another island nation located off the shores of a continent, had similarities with the UK.
The point is that friends are temporary and interests are rather less temporary but still not even close to permanent.
IMO, I can see no successor to the nation state, despite the rise of globalisation, power-blocs (see earlier posts about aspects of them), multi-national corporations et al.
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Dave
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24 Feb 2016
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Best of the best no less
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie
We seem to have failed as a potential France or Germany because we don't play the EU games that well.
Andy
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My thought has been that we can be a nation that lies somewhere between the examples of Japan and Singapore (as earlier post).
But we can't do what France, in particular, does within the EU - a few years ago it had more cases against it in the EU "system of appeal" (I don't remember what that is called) than any other country of the EU.
France simply ignores what it doesn't agree with.
In contrast, the UK has the best of bureaucrats who revel in "gold plating" the rules and regulations laid down by authorities and enforcing them to the letter of the law and the powers devolved to those wee job-worthies (we have all come across them!).
The best of the best no less.
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24 Feb 2016
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Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate', a highly vocal minority who promote leaving have failed to provide; - Why in particular the EU is bad and what it needs to change;
- How the UK will be better off leaving the EU;
- How power is exercised in the UK and how this is affected by EU membership;
- Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits of the loss of EU membership;
- Any citation of specific EU legislation which they disagree with;
i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe.
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24 Feb 2016
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Fill your boots
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Last edited by Walkabout; 24 Feb 2016 at 16:41.
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24 Feb 2016
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This is what the European Commission has lined up for Europe.
The negotiations are secret and the relevant papers will remain so for 30 years.
Note who is suing who right now with respect to similar agreements in force for the Americas.
The US-EU Free Trade Agreement Could Affect 'Every Aspect of Our Lives':-
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/anti...sts-london-127
Note to the UK PM:
Best get this referendum out of the way asap before the TTIP is signed off for the EU.
ps
The article is about 18 months old.
The Trans-Pacific Partnership mentioned therein is now signed into force and Pres Obama is quite proud of that - but, he's leaving at the end of this year.
PM Cameron has also declared that he is leaving, sometime.
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24 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate' ..
.. i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe. |
Well, I have to agree with you. I'm really torn here .. and sat on the proverbial fence. And there was me thinking that I was a dyed-in-the-wool 'out' voter. 
My head is telling me 'stay in' .. but my heart still says 'out'.
If the Referendum were tomorrow, I would probably vote with my heart.
120 days remaining to make up my mind, one way or the other.
This is sooooo important too, especially for the next couple (or more) generations. I hope I /we get it right for their sakes. 
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24 Feb 2016
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How do you imagine we'll be better off without the EU and what is it exactly that you feel is having a negative impact on the UK under the current terms of EU membership?
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24 Feb 2016
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25 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider
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Having only briefly skimmed through that article I noticed flaws:
52% UK-EU trade, which other sources state it's near 70%. Correct facts not fear, unbalanced.
Only 36 out of the FTSE 100 business leaders signed an open letter, the remaining 2/3rds state they'll be unaffected.
FTA, defence, immigration,investment and welfare will all be self governed. The best of a worse deal will be a reformed EU if we're lucky...
Sent from my MoJ mobile tagging device
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25 Feb 2016
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The way things are progressing, particularly on the refugee issue, one can't help but wondering if when of the UK referendum the EU will still be in existence...
- In Hungary a referendum (URRAY, Mr. Orban!)
- Austria plus the Visegrad countries joined efforts to close the borders to refugees
- Greece threatens to block all decisions concerning the refugee crisis and recalls the Greek Ambassador to Viena.
- Luxembourg's foreign minister, in desbelief for what his eyes see says "The outlook is gloomy ... We have no policy any more. We are heading into anarchy."
And this just in the last couple of days! Oh dear...
Things are getting terribly interesting!
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26 Feb 2016
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Scarper quick
The problem with the EU is that it is an ideological project which keeps slamming into the hard facts of its own political realities.
Kind of like a drunk with his keys in the pub car-park after kicking out time, repeatedly fumbling with the locked door of the wrong car.
Eventually he will manage to get into his own car and crash it on the way home.
How many others will be killed in the process is the only outstanding question...
Square pegs & round holes... the whole thing.
(Brits bought property and ran businesses in Spain and the Med long before the EU came along, and they will do long after its gone)
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26 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate', a highly vocal minority who promote leaving have failed to provide; - Why in particular the EU is bad and what it needs to change;
- How the UK will be better off leaving the EU;
- How power is exercised in the UK and how this is affected by EU membership;
- Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits of the loss of EU membership;
- Any citation of specific EU legislation which they disagree with;
i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe.
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I'm sure they'll soon produce some cogent arguments as to why we should leave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottym24
The problem with the EU is that it is an ideological project which keeps slamming into the hard facts of its own political realities.
Kind of like a drunk with his keys in the pub car-park after kicking out time, repeatedly fumbling with the locked door of the wrong car.
Eventually he will manage to get into his own car and crash it on the way home.
How many others will be killed in the process is the only outstanding question...
Square pegs & round holes... the whole thing.
(Brits bought property and ran businesses in Spain and the Med long before the EU came along, and they will do long after its gone)
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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
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26 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate', a highly vocal minority who promote leaving have failed to provide; - Why in particular the EU is bad and what it needs to change;
- How the UK will be better off leaving the EU;
- How power is exercised in the UK and how this is affected by EU membership;
- Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits of the loss of EU membership;
- Any citation of specific EU legislation which they disagree with;
i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe.
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One question that the pro EU brigade do not and will not face up to is.....It's an unelected, unaccountable dictatorship that can not even be honest enough to produce accounts. Show me one set of audited accounts...go on !!!!!
It is not unable but unwilling to produce accounts....just like any other bent company skimming off the top.
I don't want to live in a federal fascist state, which the EU will become.
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26 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheels03
One question that the pro EU brigade do not and will not face up to is.....It's an unelected, unaccountable dictatorship that can not even be honest enough to produce accounts. Show me one set of audited accounts...go on !!!!!
It is not unable but unwilling to produce accounts....just like any other bent company skimming off the top...
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Despite the rhetoric and non-sequiturs, you actually raise a very interesting point. There should be more public accountability of the EU, the Commission and all of it's bodies and functions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheels03
... I don't want to live in a federal fascist state, which the EU will become.
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Nor do I but how will the EU become a, "Federal, facist state"?
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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
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26 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld
Basically after dozens of pages of 'debate', a highly vocal minority who promote leaving have failed to provide; - Why in particular the EU is bad and what it needs to change;
- How the UK will be better off leaving the EU;
- How power is exercised in the UK and how this is affected by EU membership;
- Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits of the loss of EU membership;
- Any citation of specific EU legislation which they disagree with;
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I wouldn't categorise the 'leave' posters as being a minority, and you've also been pretty vocal in your challenges of other people's posts.
I think the first of your 'demands' above has been more than adequately explored and I don't see why anyone should jump through hoops answering your other points until you first explain:
- Why in particular the EU is good and why it doesn't needs to change;
- How the UK will be better off staying the EU;
- How power is exercised in the UK and how this is benefitted by EU membership;
- Factual studies or evidence on why the UK benefits from EU membership;
- Any citation of specific EU legislation which you agree with;
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