If you want to change something then it should be upon you to state your reasons why. I've already outlined my reasoning for staying in. For me the following quote encapsulates it perfectly.

Quote,
“The European Union is an undemocratic corporate stitch-up. But leaving would be worse.”

So you agree that it's a fascist Federal bunch then.......How could leaving "that" possibly be worse than rolling over and accepting it?

As for all this talk about the so called Status quo.....Who does this "Status quo" serve best? Us or the corporate bankers......we won't get a bail out or a bail in will we?

Sometimes you just got to buck the trend...go off and make your own way....sort of thing this site is all about. And most certainly ###k the status quo when it doesn't serve you.....load up the proverbial bike and get hell out of Dodge. Ok, we may be headed out for some piste....but it will be "our" route and not directions from some corporate sell out monkey boy......

I'm loadin up......

Yes you did and you continue to get it.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Hahaha, funny as!

So let me get this straight, the bankers make some shocking decisions, spunk a whole load of our money out the window, they then get bailed out by the government using taxes that we paid for again using our money and it's for our benefit?
Oh and then to add insult later, they sell off the remains for a lot less than it cost which has the net result of bankers and politicians getting a lot richer off the back of the public.

Yeah, we're continuing to get it. Where the sun don't shine.....

And this has what to do with the EU?

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Bugger all, but has a lot to do with your previous reply.

Which was itself a reply to twowheels03.

So much noise from you pro-Brexit guys, so little signal.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Who says I'm pro brexit?

As a matter of fact, I'm one that is as yet undecided. I can see good and bad in the union.

I can however make my mind up about a few individuals on here from comments they make and conclusions they draw that they are quite blinkered on both sides of the debate.

Sorry for the mis-identication. I'm undecided myself as I've indicated earlier. I'm pro-Europe but not sure Cameron's deal is good enough.

What I see here though is some good questions being asked and little but rhetoric coming in response.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Pretty much my stand point.

I think we should be taking down borders, not building them. All they cause is bitterness, resentment and miss trust.

I'm also quite alarmed at the rapid rise of far right views. Parts of Europe went down this path less than a century ago, you would think that such atrocities within living memory would serve as a stark reminder of the path that intolerance takes us.

Maybe we are moving to fast towards a more integrated Europe, and people are struggling to cope with it.

However, financial imbalances within the union and some quite large cultural differences must be addressed.

I think the rise of far right views has been caused by the mass migration. The TV cameras might focus on the women and children but the majority of the migrants are young men. It could be they are fleeing call-up in their own country, but it's an imbalance in the host country, especially when some misbehave as they did in Köln.

I can't say that my mind is definitely made up re the referendum, but I'm certainly leaning in a non-nein direction. I would have prefered Cameron to have told the assembled prime ministers that the deal wasn't good enough and for him to have carried the campaign into 2017 which would have really annoyed the French and Germans with their internal elections.

There's no doubt that some in Europe (especially France) would like to move to a more integrated Europe, but the question was never put to the great unwashed British public following Maastricht and Lisbon and the forthcoming referendum will actually be the first chance we get to give an opinion.

A quote from an interesting wikipedia article on the European Constitution, "ICM asked 1,000 voters in the third week of May 2005: “If there were a referendum tomorrow, would you vote for Britain to sign up to the European Constitution or not?”: 57% said no, 24% said yes, and 19% said that they did not know"

One of my best friends in Dutch and as he says, the Netherlands voted "no" in 2006 but the politicians just ignored the result of the referendum.

However... before the UK gets to vote in June there will be a referendum in Netherlands on 6 April asking whether Ukraine should be allowed to join the EU. Opinion polls suggest a "no" vote.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Totally in favour of Ukraine joining the UK, their vodkas lovely and Dynamo in the premiership would be cool.

Why do the cloggies get to decide though? Possibly enough know where Ukraine is to make an informed decision?



Andy

To which migrants are you talking about Tim? - "Majority of migrants are young men"?

Several:

G20:
G20: what is it and how does it work? - Telegraph
Note how the privately owned central banks get to sit at the table + the EU is in there.
In effect the EU (note a rotating representative) is not speaking for the 4 largest economies currently in the EU who have their own seats – little wonder at the Norwegian comment about the G20 organisation which is ad hoc in nature.


World trade Vs the EU: the specific figures appear later in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv5O_Gq30ow




UK share of world trade;
Transparency International - Exporting Corruption 2015

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Dave

For just 50 years or so which makes the EU a Johnny-come-lately to my mind.

Either way, Our PM needs to get his referendum of the way before the Euro crashes and burns for the 19 countries involved in that (with 3 of them also in the G20 setup it will give the EU more to think about than the £ zone).
Will Pending Eurozone Bank Crisis Take Down the Euro (EUR)? | Currency News UK

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Dave