Someone else mentioned it, what everyone else in the EU should fear is exactly what happened to the US, we became federated states which have slowly eliminated cultural differences within said states. This can happen with the modern attack on the south by removing Confederate statues, now before you respond think of the heritage within your present country, the statues you have of ancient leaders who could instantly be subject to this sort of Insanity. I believe England is dealing with some of that as well, as much as I want truth regarding old leaders, they are still a important part of our history.
Slowly but surely we are all being indoctrinated, resist, how boring would Europe be if it ends up like the US. I already hate the fact that English is now all over the world taking away from much of the fun of traveling. Money exchange is also a fun factor of traveling often adding to the adventure of our travels and now? Well you already know. I would also like to mention that currency often represents history within in any country. That history is a instant curiosity to anyone traveling in a given area, how horrible that many have lost that identity entirely.


With all that said If Countries try to leave the EU I get great news programming on the carnage which ensues, reality TV at its best!

How funny is that, just been watching a programme on TV about what the last poster mentioned, removal of the southern flag. You seriously have some nutty fucxxrs over there. Regardless of the issues in this country and the eu,, if someone stood outside one of our government buildings waving a nazi flag yelling sieg heil and white power they would get the shxt kicked out of them by all in sundary regardless of race or creed. and hopefully the local,plod would let go of them at the top of the stairs to the cells.
Am still voting out

You must have been on vacation Neo-nazi London protest - Recap as far-right demonstrate against the 'Jewification' of Britain hits capital - Mirror Online


Explainer: The Rise of Neo-Nazism in Europe : Discovery News

Anglo French relations in autumn 1940 were indeed bad. My Grandfather was part of the cavalry division in Palestine and actually charged the French on horseback. More 1855 than 1940. This as the highlight of a military career than included time in the citadel in Cairo. He said the Sean Connery film" the hill" was accurate enough, in a toned down so as not to make you throw up sort of way. The old boy said motorbikes and going abroad would get me killed


Back on topic I think this will divide the generations. Many who got to vote for the EEC feel cheated it wasn't just a trade deal. My generation feel cheated we didn't get to vote before. The youngsters don't care, they never knew life before the EU. The timing of the vote is critical, Jacques Delors would have got a 90% out vote, if they'd left it until 2025 the turn out would have been less than for the usual European stuff.

Andy

Shrek I probably was, but I'm guessing there were a hell of alot of people trying to get at them, if similar demos elsewhere are any indication.
Still voting out though

I got told many times (late 60's /early 70's) that going abroad on a motorbike would get me killed. I wasn't sure whether I should have been looking out for leftover Nazis still hiding out in the mountains, Japanese style, or whether it was going to be the formless and lawless void that constituted everywhere other than half a dozen countries of the empire and (possibly) the USA. that would get me. I'm still not sure about the USA

Re the "outs" being older and vici versa, I know it's not Mori but a straw poll I did last night at the over 60's keep fit club I instruct at had a majority in favour of staying in. OK it's only 10 or 15 people but even so there would seem to be some element of "age shall not weary them" when it comes to this stuff. Presumably post referendum they'll do some kind of breakdown as to how different groups voted and it'll be interesting to see if there was an age divide.

I mentioned before I do believe it is an age thing with older people more likely to want to leave the EU than the younger ones. Here is a link to a government PDFwhich attempts to profile age, social clas and education levels of those wanting to stay in and those wanting to leave. It is by no means comprehensive or conclusive as any poll in the run up to the general election in the UK this year proves. Enjoy.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...qCykQQ&cad=rja

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2012 Kawasaki W800
1997 NX 650 Dominator

Quite a comprehensive and interesting read. Somewhere near the bottom there's a section on in / out by political party support and it seems that 10% (a rough average of the different polls) of UKIP voters want to stay in. Now that's a section of the electorate that really knows their mind.

Having spent a while as a doorstep pollster (asking about all sorts of stuff, not just politics) it surprises me that the polls get as close as they do. A good percentage of the people I interviewed would be "don't knows" on just about every topic unless you pushed them, and then they'd just pick one of the offered alternatives at random.

Unfortunately we do not have stairs leading to the cells in general lmao


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I am assuming, based on these postings(being from USA a lot of international news does not come my way) that a vote is near about staying in the EU. There was a lot of coverage about the Scotland vote, so I may be wrong. I do read the BBC site and haven't seen anything. Sorry if I am wrong. However, as a previous person as posted, the US constitution was designed to bring 13 different governments, with different taxes and money, different religious groups and languages together for common economic benefit. Aside from a few minor spats, it has held together fairly well over the years. I understand Switzerland(forgive mispelling, not my strong suit) has 4 languages, three major ethnic groups, and at least 2 different sectarian groups. They also had a few fights to settle issues, and now seem to be holding together okay. I do not know all the issues, and am not big on giving advice, but sometimes things can be worked out for the benefit of all.

I'm not much of a fan that we are directed by un-elected directors in the EU, and its a bureaucratic nightmare far too impressed with itself and not its citizens.

However, I will always vote in (and yes a bit more accountability please). I'd happily vote in and even consider losing some personal freedoms as long as we are bound close enough in Europe never to have another war.

I think we all forget that one part of the forming of the EEC was to draw nations closer together to stop rouge nutty leaders (there's been a few of them?) starting wars because we are bound closer together.

Its one thing that has worked very well over the past 60 years within Western Europe and as my boys get very close to 'conscript' age, I'm glad they aren't likely to be sent a cannon fodder into a war with Belgium because they are exporting that is cheaper than ours. There might be a few variations on that theme, but I hope you know what I mean.

I think The UK being in Euro makes us better friends with the rest of Europe. We're already right on the edge anyway!

Without sounding too American ...we are in a War already and have been since we went in to Iraq and Afghan, maybe even before that.....but not that many of our European Brothers (tongue in Cheek) are helping out

Nowt wrong with conscription, bring it back (I am not saying your boys Dave) It would do the youth of today some good as there is a lack of respect, lack of discipline, lack of motivation to work, I could probably go on if I thought about it for long enough. My 22 years service was the best thing I did and lets face it 1 or 2 years in the grand scheme of things is not long

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

There is a far wider "war" in place at present, usually referenced in the media as a currency war.
It is how nations compete with each other without actually throwing hardware around.
Many would say that China started the current currency war which is why we have accusations of "dumping" products into their overseas markets.

Nations across the world are engaged in it at present.

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Dave

Conscription is the making of many but, to others, it can destroy them especially if you don't fit in with what is expected of you. I don't think it would of done me any good as a young man.

What I meant to say was that the EU has brought us closer together and over the past 60 yeas we have not fought another country in the EU. I know there has been the Balkan crisis, but would that of happened if Yugoslavia had been in the EU. No it wouldn't of.

All I'm trying to say is that we need to also consider the security being in EU gives us, that 'perhaps' we can take for granted?

cheers
Dave

Yes, it's easy to forget - particularly after 70 yrs of peace - how destructive of everything Euro rivalry was in the 70 yrs between 1870 and the 1940's. Many tens of millions killed, hundreds of millions wounded or their lives destroyed and world class economies demolished. Anything that prevents that happening again was, and is, in my opinion, worth trying. The American approach - unification at the end of a civil war gun barrel, wasn't really going to work in Europe after such a catastrophic period of conflict.

The only alternative people in the early 1950's could see was to intertwine the economies of two of the main players, France and Germany, to the extent that large scale future armed conflict between them would be impossible. The European Coal and Steel Community that half a dozen countries (not inc the UK) signed up to in 1951 was the first manifestation of that idea but the Schuman Declaration that brought it about also had other aims:


It would mark the birth of a united Europe.

It would make war between member states impossible.

It would encourage world peace.

It would transform Europe in a 'step by step' process (building through sectoral supranational communities) leading to the unification of Europe democratically, unifying two political blocks separated by the Iron Curtain.

It would create the world's first supranational institution.

It would create the world's first international anti-cartel agency.

It would create a common market across the Community.

It would, starting with the coal and steel sector, revitalise the whole European economy by similar community processes.

It would improve the world economy and the developing countries, such as those in Africa

(thanks to Wikipedia for the details)

OK there's nothing in there about much of the stuff we're squabbling over at the moment but it's easy to see how, step by step, we've ended up where we are. There's no denying it's achieved its major aim of preventing further Eurowars (although you could argue other factors would have done that anyway) but whether we (the UK) should just abandon it it all at this stage, possibly bringing the whole thing down around our ears as we go (although I think that's unlikely) is at the core of this.

If you start a process of unification - even for the best of motives, you can't really complain if it heads in that direction. Churchill offered the French unification between themselves and the UK when the Germans were invading in 1940. They declined but we could be living in unified "Frangland" or something at the moment had they taken up his offer.