I like it that you guys are taking an interest in this thread.

To say something about a few points therein:

The USA finally came together as a single nation as a result of your civil war.
From just some of my reading about that event, all of the public-face issues that were in place at the time, such as slavery, were the fig leafs for the real reason for that civil war; the real reason was the imposition of the dollar bill across all of the States.
i.e. the single currency which is an absolute essential of any unified nation.

The campaigns about the referendum within the UK are just kicking off here now, following the usual dearth of sensible news reporting over the Christmas/New Year break (which, naturally, goes on for weeks).
A meeting in Brussels next month will cut a deal, be in no doubt about that, and then the money is on our govn calling a referendum as early as June 16 before the migrant situation in mainland Europe brings on any further heat into the arguments.

There is a mass of information out there about the aims and intentions of the EU commission, the "5 Presidents" etc. While these have been in place for quite a while, they are now openly avowed objectives of those bodies and individuals.
In a word, the aim is a single nation state for Europe, with a single currency (more or less in place for now), a single fiscal arrangement, and a single government.

Switzerland has a very open form of democracy: for instance, if any one of the cantons says no to a proposal then that proposal falls.
Hence their stability.
They also have virtually endless referenda, something which many in politics abhor because they feel the controls that places on their powers.

Agenda 21 of the UN is also relevant.

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Dave

IMO, I for one do not want all this

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

The thinking of the other states seem much closer even if it is a case of Germany making the rules, France ignoring the rules, Italy promissing to eventually look at the rules and Spain not knowing the rules even exist. The history and hence attitude are different. They should probably want rid of us putting the brakes on their plans too.

You can make treaties with the EU even if no a member. Iceland and Norway joined Shengen as non members while The UK and Ireland stayed out.


Andy

From last year:
EU's 'Five Presidents' lay out eurozone vision, with timetable | EurActiv

To be done and dusted by 2025.

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Dave

Campaigning has started:
EU Referendum

There's going to be a lot of it.

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Dave

Merkel made her bed, and as the saying goes...she can now lay in it. Yes I feel a bit sorry for the Germans now but just because she dropped the ball doesn't mean to say we in the rest of Europe should suffer...sometimes I am really pleased we are not joined to the mainland

As for an European Army ...its nearly as funny as been a member of NATO. Putin must laugh himself to sleep on a night when he thinks of NATO, he waltzed into Crimea and now his troops are another area of Ukraine (even though he denies it) and what has NATO or anyone in the EU done to protect our borders? Nothing, they did a bit of shouting and did some sanctions. Even the US was not bothered, maybe because it was in Europe or maybe because there is no oil? I know the Ukraine is not a member of NATO or the EU but it is still part of mainland Europe and not Russia.
I served in HM Forces and it should remain Her Majesties Forces. We do not need to be run by some Spanish or French General being told what to do by people who don't like curved bananas and don't have a back bone. Serving in a Regiment which is the 309th Battalion of the European Army does not appeal to me nor probably to any of the Men and Women who are serving their country now.

I also get fed up of my country paying billions to help support the EU and the lesser countries within it when we can not look after our own elderly, homeless, sick etc. Maybe we should worry about ourselves for a bit before we worry about others?

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

The US and Nato were supposed to back the Ukraine simply over turning over their Nukes shotly after they became independent. The US with the usual jelly backbone of Obuma did nothing to support, not even a show of strength which in all reality would have been enough. As you said Putin is laughing at how easy all this is. Putin is playing chess while Nato is playing hop scotch.

As for interests, actually there is a major energy interest in the area which I am surprised the EU did not stand and do more to secure. The Gas Interests for the EU come in a large part though the Ukraine.
Russia, Ukraine Reach Deal on Gas Supplies in EU-Brokered Talks - Bloomberg Business

Russia is owning this, now, and especially in the Future as their oil/gas reserves are absolutely Immense and the world will be wondering what happened in the not so distant future as Russia laughs all the way to the bank.

This reflects on "real politik" - how the rhetoric rarely matches the reality, especially because the public have short memories.


That gas supply has been something of a political football for a while.
It amounts to about 10% of the gas supplies from East to West into Europe (from reading elsewhere) and most of it ends up in Germany, as it happens.
The Ukraine takes a "piece along the way" as payment for the leasing of the pipeline which is handy for them because their economy is bust.

Some commentary says that a reason to depose the Assad regime in Syria is to enable the construction of a "Sunni" pipeline from the middle east into Europe, thereby putting more pressure on Putins' Russia.

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Dave

As a dearly departed atty friend said, so long as people have their bread, they are happy.

Rarely are our conflicts ever about anything other than industry in some capacity.
I would encourage anyone to read http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...e_Pirate_Coast which covers how Americas policy of installing puppet dictators for commerce got started.

This guy can write on the subject better than I.
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/01...d-why-we-wont/
He doesn't always get things right in his blog - in the sense that I don't always agree with him - but he always writes from the heart as he sees things and he is entitled to that, for now anyway

It does lie in the nature of man himself - the selfish gene basically.

You guys were latecomers to this - 1804 and just finding your feet in the world - and went about displacing the British Empire.
In turn we had done for the Spanish interests in the new world and had a fair amount of effort directed toward the Dutch, to name two other nations.
But, most of our effort was directed to "enabling" compliant foreign governments to trade with us - at the latter we were pretty successful e.g. in India.
Some historians would say that Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown because he couldn't be bothered any longer - he had a better job to go to, as Governor of India.

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Dave

To follow up on the "5 Presidents", I did think that an organisation that needs 5 such posts has questions to answer on that alone.

Only one of them has a role solely related to the Euro and it's zone - Draghi of the Euro central bank.

The other 4 (one of whom has no formal existance hence the inverted commas throughout) have roles across the whole of the EU but spend most of their time and energy speaking up for Euro zone issues alone.

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Dave

Talking of links within links within websites, this guy knows the inside story about my post from a few weeks ago:
EU superstate would have no democratic legitimacy, warns euro architect*

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Dave

This is a bit off topic but I found it very interesting and I think both "In" and "Out" thinkers will take something from this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zlz...lE-I8-NO17jP0Q

Right enough.
Well said Mr Grimsson.

I must admit that I have stayed well away from the subject matter of how the nation of Iceland dealt with the Rothschilds and their bretheren.
That would really get me going! (and I have done a bit of that in the economic crisis thread in this pub).

I do like how Mr G describes the long Icelandic memory that there is concerning our Mr Brown and his threats, bluster and bravado.

Misc other points from the vid:
The complicity of the ratings agencies who are all in on the scam.

Iceland threw away the shadow banking that had set itself up within the country (probably via some variation of corruption), locked up the miscreants that they could get their hands on and returned to what they do best - the real economy.

Thereby, Iceland has moved away from misuse of resources and associated malinvestment -- This is long term; no one should doubt that it is a long-haul process but Iceland has the cohesion to get on and do it.

Anyone remember "ICESave" full page adverts in the UK press, offering 12% interest rates on their savings account?

Especially notable: the USA, in private conversation, didn't give a damn. (in the context of our referendum, Pres Obama has promised to visit the UK sometime before 23 June).

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Dave