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View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the E.U. ?
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Yes
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109 |
50.00% |
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No
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46 |
21.10% |
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No.. But things MUST change
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38 |
17.43% |
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I don't care
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14 |
6.42% |
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Undecided
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11 |
5.05% |
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22 Feb 2016
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Where do the people who want to leave the EU plan to take Britain once they leave?
Would they just tow the island to a slightly warmer climate nearby, perhaps near the Canary Islands, or do they propose to move it all the way to perhaps the Caribbean? Obviously the Med is out, 'cause Britain would not fit through the Straits of Gibraltar.
I have not been following this topic very closely, hence my unfamiliarity with what proposals are on the table.
Michael
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22 Feb 2016
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Don;t know but we've got a seat on the UN Security Council so trade should be okay. 
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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
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23 Feb 2016
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Do we really need the EU?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman
Don;t know but we've got a seat on the UN Security Council so trade should be okay. |
I agree that citing the one of 5 permanent seats on the UNSC that we hold at present would have been better found under the heading of "sovereignty".
However, we do carry wide ranging influence that will certainly impact on how we can negotiate for anything in the future:
The Council of Europe for instance.
47 Member States
+ the OECD
+ the OSCE
To name a few more international bodies.
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Dave
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23 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
I agree that citing the one of 5 permanent seats on the UNSC that we hold at present would have been better found under the heading of "sovereignty"...
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So we hold it, even though we're in the EU? What's your point?
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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
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24 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman
So we hold it, even though we're in the EU? What's your point?
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We are a world power; much of Europe is not.
(We have held that seat from before we joined the EU of course).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
However, we do carry wide ranging influence that will certainly impact on how we can negotiate for anything in the future:
The Council of Europe for instance.
47 Member States
+ the OECD
+ the OSCE
To name a few more international bodies. |
Diplomacy rules, in a sound bite.
However, the EU has aspirations to undertake its' own full-blown version of diplomacy backed up with a standing defence force and all the other accoutrements of a single nation state joined in ever-closer-Union.
Still, Lord Dannatt along with various other retirees from the UK military says it is all OK, so it must be so.
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24 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
We are a world power; much of Europe is not.
(We have held that seat from before we joined the EU of course)...
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So, it's neither a reason to stay in nor a reason to leave.
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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
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24 Feb 2016
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IMHO its a reason not to be scared of leaving.
Our G8 economy and supposed Nuclear supposed deterrent lets us choose between going out in the big wide world and trying to differentiate ourselves or staying as one of many in the EU. Belgium for example would remain swamped by anything France and Germany do, so having some sort of input makes much more sense for them.
Is the UK, or does the UK want to be, a Switzerland or Norway or do we want to be a Luxembourg or Belgium? We seem to have failed as a potential France or Germany because we don't play the EU games that well.
Andy
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24 Feb 2016
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Best of the best no less
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie
We seem to have failed as a potential France or Germany because we don't play the EU games that well.
Andy
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My thought has been that we can be a nation that lies somewhere between the examples of Japan and Singapore (as earlier post).
But we can't do what France, in particular, does within the EU - a few years ago it had more cases against it in the EU "system of appeal" (I don't remember what that is called) than any other country of the EU.
France simply ignores what it doesn't agree with.
In contrast, the UK has the best of bureaucrats who revel in "gold plating" the rules and regulations laid down by authorities and enforcing them to the letter of the law and the powers devolved to those wee job-worthies (we have all come across them!).
The best of the best no less.
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24 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman
So, it's neither a reason to stay in nor a reason to leave.
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It means that we can stand on our own two feet and that the EU finds the UK useful much more than the UK has a use for the EU.
Perhaps our PMs' recent negotiation did not recognise that with sufficient robustness.
It is necessary to bear in mind that nations do not have friends, just interests.
Further, those interests change with both time and circumstances; for instance, we have not always been "friendly" with the USA despite all the hype about a "special relationship".
Some historians would say that we nearly went to war with the latter in 1928 which was the post-WW1 period/pre-WW2 when the aim of the USA was to bring down the British Empire.
Around that period one of the closest allies of the UK was Japan which, as another island nation located off the shores of a continent, had similarities with the UK.
The point is that friends are temporary and interests are rather less temporary but still not even close to permanent.
IMO, I can see no successor to the nation state, despite the rise of globalisation, power-blocs (see earlier posts about aspects of them), multi-national corporations et al.
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23 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean
Where do the people who want to leave the EU plan to take Britain once they leave?
Would they just tow the island to a slightly warmer climate nearby, perhaps near the Canary Islands, or do they propose to move it all the way to perhaps the Caribbean? Obviously the Med is out, 'cause Britain would not fit through the Straits of Gibraltar.
I have not been following this topic very closely, hence my unfamiliarity with what proposals are on the table.
Michael
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The aim & overall objective of the referendum is focused on the whole EU interference, meddling and failure to address serious issues along with reform, the reform proposals had to be agreed by all 27 other EU leaders, with some countries needing the EU gravy train more than the EU needing them.
Personally, and unfortunately I'll wager we'll remain in, the U.K. Has an opportunity to leave & be 'politically independent & self governed' via the forthcoming referendum, our PM's recent attempted negotiations were for diplomatic justifications only & like previous Governments have let the electorate down.
The EU dictatorship exacerbates & avoids reform responsibility and fiscal governance.
We'll still remain EU trading partners and poor scaremongering from some businesses and industries will adjust and continue as its in their best interest.
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23 Feb 2016
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The in campaign have the easier task. "All you can eat until Christmas and no foxes" will sell well amongst the occupants of the chicken shed.
These top level business people are all rich enough to buy their way out of the EUs personal restrictions and are in the positions they are because they are used to bending over when their bosses tell them to. The good ones, the real entrepreneurs should be itching to get out in the rest of the world and do their stuff free of petty regulation.
Andy
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23 Feb 2016
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Stage managed - didn't take long to get 36 companies in line
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie
The in campaign have the easier task. "All you can eat until Christmas and no foxes" will sell well amongst the occupants of the chicken shed.
These top level business people are all rich enough to buy their way out of the EUs personal restrictions and are in the positions they are because they are used to bending over when their bosses tell them to. The good ones, the real entrepreneurs should be itching to get out in the rest of the world and do their stuff free of petty regulation.
Andy
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Boycott Asda and Marks and Spencer is an easy call.
They have been short sighted enough to do the bidding of our PM, whereas other food suppliers have seen fit to stay out of the arguments.
This letter, printed today, is signed off by 1/3 of the UKs' largest corporations which leaves another 2/3 with enough sense to have some level of regard for their customers rather than pander to the government of the day.
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Last edited by Walkabout; 23 Feb 2016 at 14:52.
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23 Feb 2016
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Have to love politicians when they are campaigning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
Boycott Asda and Marks and Spencer is an easy call.
They have been short sighted enough to do the bidding of our PM, whereas other food suppliers have seen fit to stay out of the arguments.
This letter, printed today, is signed off by 1/3 of the UKs' largest corporations which leaves another 2/3 with enough sense to have some level of regard for their customers rather than pander to the government of the day.
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Funny old thing, but our PM turns out today to talk to a group of O2 employees (who might have been better off at their desks, working).
O2 signed the letter referenced earlier, along with BT as just one more telecomms behemoth.
That's the same O2 that is 100% owned by the Spanish company Telefonica - no FUD factor therein was intended by our PM I guess.
It came over as another of the "safer, stronger, better off" speeches.
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23 Feb 2016
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4 months of debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie
The good ones, the real entrepreneurs should be itching to get out in the rest of the world and do their stuff free of petty regulation.
Andy
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Once we get past this initial phase of in-fighting of the political parties (well, one in particular), and the stage-managed letters written to the MSM, then we should get down to some informed discourse in the UK.
e.g.
A feasible model for the future of the UK lies some way between Japan (manufacturing and industrial capability) and Singapore (services).
Forget the fatuous, strawman, comparisons with Norway and Switzerland.
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