Getting back to the topic.. I voted NO.

Myself, I'm from the Netherlands and a similair discussion will start soon in my country.

A very rightwing and populist movement is starting to take shape in Holland (and perhaps in the whole of Europe).

Why do I say no?

Well, think about it, 55% of your trade is with Europe! And yes, this will also continue when you get out of the EU, as will the regulations.

Source

Therefore if the UK decides to leave the EU, you will have to comply to the same regulations but without a voice in the European parlement.

Furthermore, your banking sector has grown enormously after the EU was formed, this will also crumble may you leave the EU.

Source

One could argue whether it ever has been a good idea to start with the EU, but that's not what your vote is about. Your vote should help your country forward and not only be fueled by emotions.

So did "no" mean 'remain' or 'leave'? I tried to deduce the answer from the remainder of your post but it still wasn't clear from what you wrote.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

This. Brexit. Stuff. Is. Boring.

No-one knows what will happen if we stay or go. There are 1001 opinions and versions of a new UK and what it would be like and not one of them is guaranteed to be real or accurate. It's like Y2K Groundhog Day all over again and the computer scaremongers.

'Ooooh, you're computer is gonna explode'
'No it isn't'
Yes it is coz my mate down the pub said so'

Like I said before, it's a load of bollox. That is all.

He invoked Winston Churchill and that famous quotation but made the classic error in omitting the “but Britain must never be a part of it” line so I think we can infer he is a (Dutch) remainiac.


Also, he highlights the rise of the hard right without acknowledging that this phenomenon is a direct result of the incompetence and failed policies of the EU and can therefore be laid directly at the door of the very institution he advocates.

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It seems bizarre that another nationality can vote in our country but it is so and we even have the Irish PM campaigning today on British soil with the approval of Vichy Dave. I can't imagine the reverse ever happening but anyways consider this;

If people vote “Remain” David Cameron’s recent EU agreement will be implemented, which means that new immigrants to the UK will have lower social benefits than those already here. It will be impossible under EU law to differentiate between Irish immigrants on the one hand and non-Irish ones on the other. So new Irish immigrants to the UK must face cuts in social benefits too. On the other hand, the long-established Anglo-Irish Common Travel Area, which goes back to 1923, is a matter exclusively for the British and Irish governments and is not an EU matter. Irish people will continue to move freely between the two islands and across the north/south border inside Ireland as they have always done.

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Well, I can give you plenty quotes of historical figures either saying remain or leave, depending in what context I would like to use it.

Which, to elaborate on the subject, was my point. There will always be a quote which one is able to interpret for his/her/it's cause.

In my opinion, your Cornwell epitaph does both sides justice, depending in what mindset you read it.


The rise of rightwing parties, which are particularly keen on independent states and the end of the EU, can very well be traced back to wrong politics and greedy politicians not aware of society's struggles.

Fear and hate against other ethnicity/religion/countries (underline your preferred answer) is what these groups are after. Mind you, being travelers (assuming you are), should have learned a valuable lesson that most people are genuinely kind, regardless of their religion or ethnicity.

Therefore, why would one want the UK to leave other countries behind? Because of a misplaced sense of being the greatest empire in the world regardless of being an island depending on their mainland partners?

The only good thing coming out of leaving the EU is that it will be dirt cheap to travel in the UK (for foreigners, the ones right wing tries to keep out), plus buying gear in the UK will be more affordable.

A useful overview of the economic argument, from a writer for the Independent newspaper (which nowadays is out of print and totally online only).
The author of the article used to work for the IMF, so he says:-

EU referendum: Why the economic consensus on Brexit is flawed

As it happens, Frank Field MP put his finger on a range of key aspects during the Question Time programme of last night.
In short, this referendum is just the start; the UK will be much more like Scotland is today, no matter what the result of the single event of 23 June which will be close, one way or the other.

The PM was taken apart by the Sky TV programme also of last night; after that performance he must regret ever becoming involved in leading his own campaign.

Meanwhile (again) police investigations of the Tory party actions during the 2015 general election gather pace.

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Dave

Thank you for this! It really needed to be said given the context of this thread and the name of the forum we're all posting on.

Well you left a significant part of my post out of your quote.

But, I say remain in the EU. The U.K. will benefit more from staying and having a say in making the rules then to leave and having to subdue to rules that have been made out of their control. (55% of the trade being with the European mainland)

There is and should be sufficient room to let countries have their own identities. Rules, regulations and benefits are in place to have all countries and citizens benefit. Besides don't all politicians use the EU as a scapegoat? What if that is not there anymore? Who is to blame for their mistakes?