Motorcycle Daily published this:
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2015/...al-new-models/
Could be perfect company to build a light weight, high quality ADV Dual sport single. Lots of potential, not much competition is the 250 to 450cc ADV bike area. Will they go there or continue to make practical commuters and 125's?

There just mustn't be any market for the sort of lightweight quality single enduro otherwise presumably someone would make one? Proper ADV riders to me seem like people who will do it on whatever they can, whether that's their GS1200 or a UJM they buy new and ride the wheels off it. I certainly met people riding everything in between in my time in S.America. Out of interest, does anyone have the top selling bikes of recent times?

As you know, the Chinese make lots of enduros ... but the "quality" part has been left off. The Koreans are MUCH better in this regard. I'm talking about an ADV bike that could knock KTM and BMW off their High Horse ... and come in with something smaller, lighter, cheaper and easier to ride and to maintain.

Here is a pretty good page for bike sales info, lots of additional links for more specific info.

Motorcycle Sales Statistics - webBikeWorld

Interesting figures, especially about the Dual Sports. The obvious market is for road Bikes, maybe that's why most of the high-spec 'ADV' bikes are just road bikes posing as dualsports, well, that's what they look like to me anyway. Likewise, I read most GS drivers never go anywhere near dirt, so I can understand manufacturers keeping 'ADV' bikes road orientated i.e. heavy and powerful, complicated. and expensive. But then I probably don't know what I'm talking about!

Hyosung has brought in bikes to Canada, but I've only seen two or three. There just isn't the dealership support. Why take a chance on an unknown when you can go with one of the Japanese Four? It's too bad, because more competition is good for the market.

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Bruce Clarke - 2020 Yamaha XV250

You're not far off, IMO.
Big ADV bikes are basically reworks of street or Sport Touring bikes. "Style" is an important element in this segment.
ADV bikes are good (better, IMO) then previous bikes because:
1. Very comfortable up right riding position. Sporty, quick, agile.
2. High position means good visibility above most traffic.
3. Good for carrying BIG load and passenger.
4. Fairly rugged ... (or rugged looks anyway). Fairly tough, less plastic than road or sport touring bikes.
5. Most have excellent power, near sport bike handling. Win Win.
The BMW's even show good fuel numbers. Not so KTM, Yamaha, Triumph.

BMW did a great job marketing the ADV bike thing. Some would say they "created" it. I disagree ... but BMW WERE important. BMW started in 1981 with the first R80GS, based loosely on their Paris-Dakar Race bike.

Others were there too: Cagiva, Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha all had "Adventure" bikes for sale based on their Dakar racers. Only the BMW GS and Cagiva (Ducati) came to the USA, none of the Japanese ones.
So in EU Punters got real Race Replicas, graphics and all.

But those bikes came and went. Only BMW really kept at it, evolving the GS every few years. All others dropped out of the "Rally" segment. 20 years Later, KTM jumped in.

KTM got in the big ADV bike race in 2004 with the horribly unreliable but great riding 950 adventure. They've got better since, going from 950 to 990, to 1190 and now 1290. Where will this BIGGER IS BETTER thing end?

In 2012 Yamaha jumped in with the Tenere' 1200 and XTZ660 (EU only for 600).

BMW went from the R80GS to R100GS, in '93 big breakthrough with all new "Oil head" motor (bit of a disaster). BMW recovered, continued on but the BMW's were never without serious problems ... continues today.

R1100GS to R1150GS ... and then another BIG STEP ... R1200GS. Best GS yet, truly a GREAT bike.(IMO)

Now it's water cooled, has every electronic gadget known and costs about 18K UKP. KTM similar price. Both can go off road but riders need to be careful. Both bikes around 272 kgs. (fuel/loaded).

Honda are ready to step back in. Suzuki struggle with the Vstrom, Yamaha are doing well with the heavy but tough Tenere' 1200. Kawi have nothing beyond the KLR. Guzzi have the Stelvio. Triumph have become a player with their 800 and 1200 Tigers.

All ADV Rally inspired poser bikes ... really best as road bikes.


But these are ALL great bikes to ride, even if not taken off road. It's ALL GOOD, it gets people out riding.

Having toured long distance off road with several BMWGS's, Tigers and Vstroms, I determined that even though all great street bikes, I was never happy wrestling them around off road.

I went smaller. Tried a XR250R in Baja, 3000 mile ride. Great off road, not so great on road.



Tried XL600, XR400, XR650L, KLR650 and some dirt bikes too.

Got back on a DR650 after a 15 year break ... and loved it for nearly everything I do.
I'd love to try a smaller bike traveling but would not want to cover thousands of road miles on one. But that is just me. I love to cruise down an empty rural road at 100 mph.

I'd love to own and tour Europe or the States on many of those bikes you listed, but the DR650 would be the only one I'd touch for any serious ADV stuff in Latin America, Africa, Asia, etc. Still, each to his own. People doing RTW on C90's prove any machine will do!

.... and the people riding bicycles prove any machine without a motor will do.


...... and the people walking round the world prove a machine is unnecessary.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

Damn, now I feel so guilty! I think I'll set fire to my motorbike!

Yes ... a bicycle will DO and a motor is unnecessary ... but I LIKE motors!
I know our 150 years of motorized romance will soon be ending .. but isn't it too late for us already anyway?

Thelma & Louise would not have worked as well if they WALKED OFF THE CLIFF!

After taking in enough pain from bicycling one could pick up one of these and really learn about suffering. (I really suffer riding bicycles .. cannot do it)


True Story:
Riding my motorcycle across a very remote section of the Sonoran Desert in N. Mexico I came across a Jesus wanna-be carrying a HUGE cross along the highway. (sorry, no pics, had film camera back then)

But unlike the dozens of other temporary Jesus's we've seen before ... this poor guy had no support crew. Carried almost NO water or food.

The Sun had burnt the crap out of him, but on he trundled. He would not talk, when I stopped to offer water. Maybe he'd taken a vow of silence? I rode up the road a half mile and left a water bottle for him. No idea if he ever got it.
Do you think I'll go to Heaven?

He sported the whole outfit from loin cloth to sandals. His Crown of Thorns was some sort of Desert bush. No thorns. Oh well, I give him a 90 out of 100 for style .. and full marks for effort.

Great review Mollydog

You forgot CCM. Their new bike looks really good though I guess will not be sold in big numbers (or to the colonies)