Am I right in saying the solicitor that are fighting the case is a trf members and they are making the money from fighting this case in court.

I'm not TRF member - I have never ridden green lanes.. Im not even in the UK at the moment (just wanted to clarify all that) but the point of this thread is about the green lane issue not about the money or financial goings on within the TRF

isn't it ?


(Drops from the conversation!)

carry on !

__________________
Mark
http://chasingdreams2014.blogspot.co.uk/

What I find interesting is that when lanes close the trf want your help to fight to keep it open I've been to these trf meetings, I'm not impressed with the people who run them, they don't share info on temp lane closers, so other riders are still using the lane, and it's £50 a year membership, drop the price they may find more people interested, and it's a click club, they want your money but not to come out riding.

It's not the TRF's job to advise and update random non-TRF members of lane closures. How are they meant to go about doing so? If a lane is closed, there will be a legal sign at either end of the lane advising of closure dates & the reasons behind it. In addition, many counties have up to date websites detailing all lane closures, the info is out there if you bother to look, the Wiltshire County Council website is particularly good.

I can only speak for Oxford TRF, we are certainly not a "cliquey group", we actively welcome new members and endeavor to get them out on the lanes ASAP. membership has gone from 80 to 150+ in the last 3-4 years.

In this age of £500+ mobile phones & sat navs, £1,000 luggage systems & £1,500 riding suits, £45 for a years membership of the TRF is not a lot of money for a worthwhile cause.

Lastly, we're lucky enough to have Wiltshire on our doorstep, with more legal Byways than any other county, many parts of the country don't have it so good, we appreciate what we have and to that end, I've just donated £500 this evening on behalf of Oxford TRF to the Hexham Lane fund in the knowledge that their target of £10,000 had already been exceeded by over 30%. If they don't use all of the money raised fighting the lane closure, then the balance/remainder goes to the TRF fighting fund to fight the next case.

__________________
My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

So, what is the TRF policy regarding Crowd Funding (CF)?

Was that recent CF a one off event or will it be used again?

If it is to be used again then will the annual membership fees be reduced in recognition of this new source of funds?

Which campaigns are worthy of CF efforts and which should be funded from the fighting fund?

Why don't the TRF publish their knowledge of green lanes now that they are funded by non-members?
These folks do:-
Maps showing rights of way

As a general comment, everything I have seen and heard about the TRF indicates that it is a disparate set of groups, scattered around the country; all very much doing their own thing - nothing wrong with that per se.

After all, it is so easy nowadays to just go overseas to ride some great dirt.
The emotional attachment to a few miles of UK green lanes is not what it once was.

__________________
Dave

All of the green lane knowledge held by various TRF groups is easily accessible. All we do is buy the relevant OS map, plan a route, mark the route on the map or more likely these days, track log it on a sat nav and amend/refine the route where necessary.TRF groups are not the sole keepers of byway knowledge in the UK, anyone can do as we have done, it's only laziness that prevents them from doing so.

As for sharing, we have a set of marked up OS maps for the areas we regularly ride, they are freely available to anyone in the group to borrow and copy. New members are encouraged to do the same.

As for disparate groups, why is that we have ridden with Bristol, Gloucestershire, East Midlands, Devon and Welsh TRF groups? We've taken most of the above groups on our local lanes, encouraged them to tracklog the routes and they've done the same for us. If I want a route for green lanes anywhere in England or Wales, I only have to ask the relevant group. I've also got a selection of routes for Spain, Portugal, France & Italy that have been emailed to me.

If others have already made the green lane knowledge available as you suggest, what is the point of the TRF or anyone repeating, especially when OS maps are readily available, as are sat navs that come with preloaded OS maps for whole of the country?

Riding abroad is great, that's why we're taking another group to Portugal in September for the second time this year and off to central France next spring but nothing beats deciding you want to go trail riding at short notice, getting the bike out and hitting the local trails.

It's not for you to comment on the "emotional attachment to green lanes" of people you don't know.....

__________________
My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

Stev I wish I was in your region sounds like you are well organised m8, I would have had a better experience with the trf,
When I went out with curtain trf members I was told not to have any sat nav devices switched on, and no info was made available to me from the trf, I must point out that some did but ask me not to say anything,
It's fare to say some regains are run better than other.
I feel I didn't get value for money from my experance

It's my view, not others.
When I was young I guess I was susceptible to the emotional blackmail of the usual kind churned out --- - the use it or lose it and, by the way, we are your guardians and you will be cast out into the cold unless you comply and join the club.

Now we have the "what would it be like to green lane without a bike?" approach combined with "give us the money".
Still no answers to my monetary-based questions though; too searching perhaps?

Based on the earlier reply, I have done a search for the TRF accounts (I don't use the verb "to google" however).
It turns out that the TRF are a limited company registered in the UK with considerable assets to hand.
I'll give this some more consideration; maybe post later even.

__________________
Dave

Not really; it is an appeal to a wide audience outside of the TRF to contribute funds to one of the aims of the TRF.
The latter is a private club of a few thousand members. I am not aware that they publish audited accounts of their funding - up to now they have no need to do so, being private in nature.
Maybe that needs to be addressed now that they have a goodly amount of cash from a wide range of the public to augment their other funds.

The so-called "Green lanes issue" (they are not always, or even often, green) has been discussed many times, in many fora and is an emotive issue within the UK - so is donating cash for "worthy" causes.

__________________
Dave

There are so many "worthy causes" tugging at your heartstrings these days that the phrase "a plague on all their houses" has come to mind a few times recently. We were door knocked last night by the NSPCC (a children's charity for those not familiar with the initials). A very worthy cause and worth supporting but the high pressure "stabbing finger" doorstep tactics very quickly turned sympathy to annoyance. Their well scripted presentation stopped just short of accusing me of "neglect" because I haven't set up a regular bank transfer donation - something I'm now very unlikely to do to say the least. The last couple of weeks has seen a number of other charities "blitzing" our road in similar "shame on you" manner.

I do have sympathy with the predicament that the TRF finds itself in and can understand why they'd want a "whip round" to pay a lawyer but whatever the merits of this particular case there is a Canute like element to their stance. Standing on the beach and waving £20 notes in the air to try and reverse one closure really is ignoring the tide of increasing regulation and, it has to be said, logic sweeping round their feet that's redefining the status of tracks all over England. The only reason they're not all already downgraded to footpath status is because councils have other things to do with their time.

Since I was a member of the TRF (many years ago) I've seen "unsurfaced roads" round my way (Chilterns) go from road status to bridleway and then down to footpath. If horse riders and cyclists are being barred what hope have motorcycles and 4x4s got. Personally, as a runner on many of these tracks, I wish there was a further downgrade to no dogs available but that's just me.

What the heck has the TFR appeal got to do with someone doorstepping you for NSPCC?
Walkabout: all you had to do was to Google 'Trail Riders Fellowship accounts' to find out the latest set of accounts filed was for up to 31 August 2014.

Lowrider: you might not be impressed with the volunteers helping run your local TRF but they are unpaid amateurs and if you think you can do better you could always step forward to help. Did you mean clique?

___________________________________________


If you're interested in helping this, please consider donating in the same way that 461 other people have already done.

If you're not, please pass on by quietly.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

I was thinking more about those who have made a donation to the TRF; they may like to look at such accounts - it matters not to me because I haven't made such a donation.

As for the wider topic of cash donations in general, it certainly is not off topic - your OP request is but one example of such a donation among a multitude of "good causes". It is based upon the TRF use of crowd-funding of course and "imagine how you would get along on the lanes without your bike".
As backofbeyond says, the more "moral blackmail" that is exerted the stronger I become in my personal resistance.

Incidentally, off topic in the pub??

__________________
Dave

That touched a nerve.
It is not all sweetness and light with the charity game. e.g.
Childline.

__________________
Dave

Guess in the HUBB PUB mild dissension and topic wandering aren't allowed.

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map