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20 Jun 2012
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Posts: 82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caminando
Thanks SK. I'm not actually looking for help or advice, I'm raising an issue. Your comment about most people not going abroad -I'd say that only applies to the US, where very few actually have a passport, and who view the world with suspicion. Your comment about many in the US only travelling with the military bears that out, and says much.
I'd say that most Europeans have a passport and travel.
Your solution about smaller bikes is a good one. Reducing involvement in the ratrace or consumerism is appropriate too. You might care to read a book by Thorstein Veblen about conspicuous consumerism.
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The situation is very different in Europe, full of small countries piled on top of each other. You need a passport to actually go anywhere, which is probably as much reason for 'most' (and I'd be willing to wager its still not a majority) have a passport than any real desire to travel farther than a few hundred miles from home. Riding across the EU is roughly equivalent to riding across the lower 48 is it not?
Regardless, money and the costs of it all have certainly put a damper on my long distance trip planning. I really really really want to spend a few months riding around Europe, but the cost of shipping my bike over and back is absurd. I could spend months traveling in North, Central, and South America for the money I'd spend to get over and back, before factoring in 2x-3x fuel costs; its a rough pill to swallow. But I think as others have mentioned, its the 'other' stuff that gets in the way as you get older and get used to the ins and outs of what needs to happen to put a tour together. I also still believe there are more people out there now than ever before, the sky isn't falling its just changing.
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2008 Yamaha WR250R
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21 Jun 2012
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DogZone Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierd
The situation is very different in Europe, full of small countries piled on top of each other. You need a passport to actually go anywhere, which is probably as much reason for 'most' (and I'd be willing to wager its still not a majority) have a passport than any real desire to travel farther than a few hundred miles from home. Riding across the EU is roughly equivalent to riding across the lower 48 is it not?
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Yes Skierd, on needing a passport, this is true to a point, though Schengen means that for many countries a passport is not needed. But your basic point is valid.
On "riding across the EU" I take your point, tho' it's more about moving out of your comfort zone, whatever the distance.
There is a real problem in Europe you don't have in the US and that's the price of fuel, which is crippling here, I think.
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21 Jun 2012
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seville (E)
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I agree with most points, or I’d say with the spirit of your post. But I also think there’s another side of the coin to be seen:
- The comparison between overlanding and flying costs may be misleading: fuel prices have raised, but also flight tickets prices have gone rock bottom, so they are comparatively much cheaper now. I assume that flying your bike to another continent has to be much cheaper today than it used to be. Nonetheless, oil prices and industry are THE BIGGEST SCAM on Earth (…alongside with banks, of course). I don’t get that petrol can be more expensive than drinks (  , soft drinks, juice, etc) and still there is no alternative to it. I hate that lobby, a burden for all of us.
- Some regions get tougher to go to, but others open as well: far Russia/Siberia and the Stans are accessible, as it happened with the Eastern block in general, for instance. I’m pretty sad about Western Africa, it’s in my agenda, but thinking about rushing through Timbuktu or elsewhere, instead of taking it easy looks the opposite of what I’d like. But this looks like cycles.
- I think there is an assumption that should be clear to someone committing to travelling intensively, especially if you plan to keep the pace at an older age: if you focus a lot on travelling, years-off, investing in gear, etc, then your professional career won’t perform (I hate that word!) so good as if you only focused on working and working and working and working. So, it’s reasonable to think that you’ll have less cash in the long run. It’s not only the money you spend (instead of invested) and the cash you did not earn that year since you did not work (we call that “lucro cesante”, lost profit?), but also that those years-off may stop you going higher in the job hierarchy. Or you may keep a “worse job” because it allows you more free time (for wrenching, planning, etc), or whatever. So it’s definitely a compromise to consider. Such a life will have a toll.
Something that seems to worry (not that Caminando mentioned it in the opening post), is that going abroad is getting more and more expensive… Well, fortunately for them, many developing countries are growing much faster than us (Western nations in decline), so that’s why they are much more expensive to travel now (India, Brazil, etc). The same happened to the countries that didn’t suffer that much the consequences of the WWII, such as the US or Switzerland, which comparatively were getting “poorer and poorer” against the other Western nations.
Regarding the future… I agree, I’m quite pessimistic, at least regarding Western countries (I cannot find a better term): I feel there is a wealth exchange of money going from middle-class towards VERY upper class (ultra-rich). Middle-class, which is the cement in the society, what gives stability in the long run, tends to disappear IMO, and that’s very, very bad.
Esteban
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