Regardless of our views on the military campaign and withdrawal from Afghanistan, the reality is the Taliban are back and will rule the country as they see fit. As travellers, how is this likely to affect us? Allegedly, strict Sharia law reduces banditry, and one would hope that now the Taliban have control over their country there would be less inclination to engage in acts of terrorism towards tourists.

Am I being over hopeful? It would be interesting to hear the views of those with some experience and depth of knowledge of the region. I plan to ride the Pamir Highway next year and I'd like to do it with open eyes. Who knows, now they are not fighting a guerrilla war might the whole country open up to visitors? OK, maybe not by next year...

It's far too early to say. Unfortunately, the occupying forces never had the diplomatic skills to engage a more lenient cadre of the Taliban (a term applied imprecisely to a variety of insurgents). They had to be painted as 'bad guys', with the America-led forces and weak Kabul government the 'good guys' for the media and morons back home. So the Taliban have been kept as 'bad guys' and have attracted a lot of very undesirable elements, jihadists from across the region (Syria, Iraq, Chechnya etc) who obviously have absolutely no interest in a stable, peaceful Afghanistan. Even if the Taliban leadership, who currently seem to be exercising restraint and have a nod of approval from countries such as Russia, China, Turkey, wanted to rid Afghanistan of such people, it would be a huge task.

There are some good signs though, the Taliban entered Kabul with seemingly little fighting, very different from the early to mid 1990s when (after another power vacuum triggered by the Soviet withdrawal and ending of American support of the Mujaheddin) the city was virtually destroyed by civil war. Seeing the rapid advance of the Taliban, it's very obvious that they enjoy widespread popular support. Especially surprising was how easily they took the north, traditionally bitter enemies of the Taliban. The Northern Alliance seems to have pretty much evaporated.

On the flip side though, this is a very complex geopolitical problem; although the Americans have made their characteristic mess of the country, it can't be blamed on them entirely; The Taliban receive a lot of support from Pakistan, who want to keep Afghanistan in their sphere of influence, and keep Indian influence out. Afghanistan's largest neighbour, China, is also keen to open the country up to Chinese infrastructure (trade routes) and investment.

The Wakhan area of Badakhshan, the part of Afghanistan you would be looking at from Tajikistan, was traditionally isolated from the civil war and Taliban control, so to see that taken by the Taliban is big news. They now hold more of the country than they ever have done. Another worry is Bamiyan, populated by Shia Hazaras. In the 1990s the Taliban committed various atrocities against them and it remains to be seen whether they will fall back into this. As far as I can tell, Bamiyan is about the last part of the country not under Taliban control, though as they are isolated high in the mountains surrounded by Taliban territory, I doubt they can hold out for long. My heart goes out to them.

Back before Bush steamed into Afghanistan, the Taliban brought a good measure of peace to the war-torn country as a whole (though they did not control the entire area). Of course, they came against a background of bitter civil war and committed numerous atrocities, as well as introducing a very hardline interpretation of Sharia law. But peace is in my opinion is the most basic expectation from a government. Westerners just cannot see that Afghanistan is a deeply traditional country and can't get past the medieval take on things like women's rights. As Churchill said, 'a bad peace is better than a good war'. It was possible to visit the country, though tourists weren't exactly flocking in.

So I think it could go either way; the Taliban run a fairly peaceful state with a degree of law and order through very hardline Islamic values that make Western liberals whine. If you are willing to follow these, a visit could be quite safe. The Afghan people are proud, chivalrous and deeply hospitable and no government will change this.

It could also go rather badly, with the 'Taliban' splitting into factions, with certain areas clear no-go zones due to the presence of some very unpleasant ISIS types who have no aim in life other than fighting.

Afghanistan has always been rather lawless, even in the heyday of the 1970s when long-haired, stoned Hippies crossed Afghanistan by bus and car ('driving ordinary Afghans into the hands of the Marxists' according to Chatwin). It will always be a destination for the adventurous, but it is a truly wonderful country to visit. Almost certainly, next year will too soon to make a call on this, unless you want to be the one testing the waters. Let's see if you can even make it to Tajikistan though.

Just for information, I drove across Afghanistan from Pakistan to Iran in about 2 months in 2009 / 10 and it was the most memorable journey I have made. I've tried to stay abreast of what is happening there, kept in touch with friends I made there (sadly all emigrated now) and also have a friend who until right now has been running regular package tours there. I long to go back and explore the parts which were too unsafe on my last visit; to travel the southern road through Zaranj, Lashkar Gah, Kandahar and Ghazni, and more of the central highlands. I'm patiently waiting.

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

Thanks EO, a nice summary and I suspect very accurate. In particular the big unknown will be how much control the (possibly more restrained) centre can exert over the outlying young hotheads. For sure, the country is likely to be too "hot" to visit for a while yet, and we'll definitely need to keep a close eye on what happens in neighbouring states. I do hope TJ isn't adversely affected - I've put this trip off for 2 years now, the Pamir is a big part of it and I'm not getting any younger.

Taliban now seem to be in control of Bamiyan province. Only the Panjshir Valley remains out of their control, the home of Ahmed Shah Massoud and now seat of the remains of the Northern Alliance and the old vice president who claims a Taiwan style 'Islamic Republic of Afghanistan' in that valley, with the rest of the country under the Taliban. Let's see if that flares up into something major. Taliban have issued an amnesty and claim they will respect women's rights and not make Afghanistan a base from which other countries are attacked.

They are certainly making all the right noises.

For the rest of your trip, I hope you can make it. I've not been to Afghan Badakhshan (Wakhan corridor) but there is a lot to see in Tajikistan and the rest of Central Asia. But with Iran, Russia and Kazakhstan currently closed, there would be no way to get there as things stand now (except flying). Hopefully thing improve next year...

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

EO,
your are very well informed about the situation and I fully respect and share your view on Afghanistan.

But let´s be honest with a clear future view:
Due to their strong reference to the pashtums code of priviledge and right system and as well due to the sharia law it will never happen that Taliban will respect women`s rights!

Unthinkable in the way of our western thinking but also never ever in the way like other "liberal islamic countries" do.

If Afghanistan will convert in future into a base from where Talibans will spread attacks (again) to non and to islamic(!) countries will only be depend on how strong and cash-rich western politics will be. And as we saw in the past weeks the game of pressing advantages was opened by the talibans in conferences with western countries.

In my eyes it`s an absolute inhuman shame what is actually happening there and how the world reacts to this. But nobody can stem fast the tide which started decades and centurys before. I allways thought that Churchill was right when he stated that a bad peace is better than a good war. But in the moment I am still asking myself where will be difference for the Afganis when a Taliban goverment will show that a bad peace and a good war will be the same.

I was never really interested to visit Afghanistan but especially Pakistan is still on my list. Talibans recruited in the past a lot of fighters from pakistani pashtums who are a minority in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. It will get existing to see what kind influence in view of safety, economics and attacks in Pakistan will be driven in the future from pakistani pashtums.

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Thanks for the reply Rapax.

The question is whose view of women's rights? It won't be (I imagine) yours or mine, but is that relevant? Afghanistan is dominated by Pashtuns (not pashtums) who have a very traditional tribal coda that gels well with fundamentalist Islam. Strict Sharia law (or even mild Sharia law, which is the law where I live) is not equitable to women. Afghanistan is never going to be a great place to live if you are a woman who wants equal rights with a man. But this Western mentality of cultural superiority is partly what is behind these kind of occupations - let the Americans come and save the people from their repression - they want Macdonalds and Nascar racing right?? Because who wouldn't?? Do you think Afghans are getting ready to send their army over to the West to solve our societal ills? The Western media pick a few of the small, urban middle class elite to justify the occupation while ordinary Afghans feel violated and humiliated at having foreign invaders in their country, on their streets, pointing guns at them - and they need only look to Iraq to see what these invaders are capable of doing. My blood ran cold in the streets of Jalalabad when the US Army came through in armoured vehicles.

I think it remains to be seen if the withdrawal of the occupying powers turns into a tragedy. Unfortunately I think there is a significant chance that it will, but we have not seen that yet. The issue in my opinion is not the Taliban we are seeing in news conferences, but the jihadists and extremists who are mixed among them.

FYI a person from Afghanistan in English (which I appreciate may not be your first language) is an Afghan. The Afghani is their currency.

Taliban attacks again? Who did the Taliban attack outside Afghanistan? The Pakistan - Afghanistan border is highly porous and I don't think anyone really knows who is Afghan and who is Pakistani Taliban, but I don't think the Afghan Taliban have been seriously implicated in attacks in Pakistan. In fact it's more the opposite; Pakistan has a murky but undeniable hand in arming the Afghan Taliban. If you think that the Taliban had much to do with the World Trade Centre attacks in 2001, that's way off. The Taliban harboured Al Qaeda (though I doubt that they were aware of plans to execute the hijacking and attack) and refused to hand over bin Laden to the Americans (who months earlier had paid the Taliban millions as a sweetener for a pipeline deal across Afghanistan...) and so in they went.

Great that Pakistan is on your list. I totally fell in love with the country and even lived there for a short time. Still my very favourite place to travel with so much to see, and much easier logistically to travel in (in the past) than Afghanistan. Sadly, I think Pakistan can have a very negative influence on how events unfold in the near future in Afghanistan.

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

Welcome for your answer!

Your are right, English is not my mother tongue and Afghani is my personal (german) slang for afghan people. But I call them like this while having full respect to them! Have to say this, so you don`t get me wrong!

I was many years in relation with a pashtun girl born in Kabul. Her father was a professor for maths/physics who temporally teached in a german university while his german collagues did same in Kabul. When the russians invaded Afghanistan he was able to emigrate to Germany with his wife and his 3 daughters. He and his wife were coming from a privileged families and they managed it to mix german and afghan culture. All his 3 girls are now married to european guys, all have studied and work while still having kids. And all of them teach their kids their family tongue (afghan farsi). Sadly grandpa and grandma passed away while still having the unfullfilled dream once to return back to Kabul.

We talked, better to say he and his wife told me a lot about their Afghanistan; I saw a bunch of photo albums and selfmade super 8 films covering the life of his family, the country and the culture and I listended to their family history. I still have my feet right now on top of an old family carpet I got as a present for my 30s birthday. I understood how they honored me when giving me an old traditional piece from their family.
And of course I am happy that I got feed much too much with a full taste through afghanstan cuisine made by the mother that days.

Thats my experience with Afghanistan

I have been twice in Iran and I love the country, the people and the culture. You asked for whose view of womens rights. For an acceptable start of women rights I would say, do it like in Iran. I don`t fully agree to their islamic view to womens but I think it could be a better starter than that I recognize or hear through actual media now in Afghanistan. But ok, I am european with a european view and understanding, I speak only less farsi and arabic, I am not religious but me and my persian girlfriend managed it to marry the persian way (sighe).

I have been to some islamic countries and I have never felt not welcomed. The very reverse often happend to me in these countries. I was richly awarded with an oustanding hospitality, kindness, helpfulness - so I found myself often overwhelmed and confused by the possitive way how islamic people generally treat foreigners. As I said I am not religious but I learned a lot about the way seeing the world with an "islamic view" and I adopted a lot for myself.

So I still hope and wish that these fckng pandemic will soon as possible turn into a direction that it will be possible again to visit and travel countries like Pakistan. And of course I hope that influences of the change in Afghanistan won`t reflect to certain islamic groups in other countries as a promoter for any kind of violence actions.

Salam!

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On (1) I agree, Afghanistan is never going to be a great place for women by western standards. I too have lived in a Central Asian Muslim country, one where women were very much equal to men, and I agree the status of women in Afghanistan has less to do with Islam than with the prevailing tribal culture. That's not something you can change in 20 years, but then women's rights was never the reason for the invasion. In reality we have done them a disservice in this area by changing the expectations of many people, only for them to be dashed as the old guard return and with them, the old ways. But that is not something you and I can do anything about.

On (2) I believe it's unlikely the Taliban will want to be "sponsors of international terrorism" again. There's an inclination in the west to view all fundamentalist Islamic sects as the same, but the reality is the Taliban, al Qaeda and Da'esh hate each other. Even the Taliban themselves are an loose alliance of tribes. The leadership will be mainly concerned about cementing their alliance and their authority across the country than about acting as any sort of focus for other groups. They know this has only bought them pain in the past and frankly I would expect them to actively discourage it.

How "progressive" the current leadership turn out to be is questionable of course, but I wouldn't entirely write them off. They appear keen to court international approval and legitimacy (the lessons of the past, if nothing else they are not stupid) though of course they will always tend go an extreme interpretation of Sharia, and the actions of hotheaded young fighters in the outskirts, some of whom will only ever have known war, may be another matter. International players like Pakistan and China will no doubt attempt to exert their influence but most likely this will take the form of soft power - money and reconstruction in exchange for resources.

So yes, a chaotic situation for some time yet I agree, but perhaps there could be some glimmers of hope and stability (a bad peace being better than a good war and all that). Though the covid situation remains unclear. In February 2020, when I decided to postpone my trip for 2 years, I figured it wouldn't "all be over by Christmas" though the slow delivery of vaccines is making me wonder whether restrictions will be lifted by next year either. Perhaps it'll take that long for the political situation to settle down as well.

Thanks again for an interesting reply, great story It's always these liberal, educated types that leave a country when things start to go downhill which is a great loss to the country. I have say that my Afghan friends are all now living abroad, and are all (Pashtun and Tajik) very negative about the prospects from the Taliban. Above all they think Ghani was a coward!

I like Iran a lot too, though I find the authoritarianism wears me down after a few weeks of being there each time I go. I really feel for Iranians who have to live with it their whole lives. I could see Tajiks in Afghanistan having women play a role in society like in Iran, but not the Pashtuns. I think it will be more like Pakistan where, except in a few upmarket areas in the biggest cities (e.g. Clifton in Karachi), women play basically no role in public life, and in the Pashtun cities in the north-west, are almost totally invisible.

Interestingly, in female travel literature (e.g. Dervla Murphy's incredible 'Full Tilt') women report being very well treated in Afghanistan. Murphy was almost raped in Turkey and Iran, but had nothing but good things to say about the honour and behaviour of Afghan men.

A fun story - I was sitting in my friend's bookshop in Kabul when a very well dressed, elegant lady came in and saw me sitting reading a book. After some brief words in Dari with my friend she glared at me and shouted something along the lines of 'YOU are the reason my country is in this mess! Get foreigners OUT of Afghanistan' I think she thought I was a soldier. It turned out she was (I think) the wife of one former Afghan president who had been murderer years earlier. The only hostile reaction I got in Afghanistan! And that includes a Pashtun highlander who carried his wounded daughter who had shrapnel in her eye (from an American attack) into a friend's ophthalmic clinic in Jalalabad. He bit his tongue.

But I absolutely agree with you - I have never been so welcomed anywhere as in Islamic countries, and Pashtuns are probably the most welcoming people I know.

Let's indeed see what the world looks like when (if?) this pandemic ever ends. The world is changing; Iraq has started to issue tourist visas on arrival (airport only), Afghanistan may see some degree of stability. Pakistan has made it easier to visit previously difficult areas such as Balochistan and Azad Kashmir. There are still adventurous places to visit!

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

I was expecting a weary comment about the length of digression on your thread.. thanks for the reply!

Women's rights were certainly not the reason for the invasion - which in my opinion are far less noble (Bush feeding the war economy and giving the lower orders of his electorate some entertainment by ultimately losing another expensive war). But the western media picks out things like Afghan women's rights, (which are of interest far more to Western TV viewers than the majority of the Afghan people) and uses this to justify the slaughter and destruction they are unleashing on the ground there. Indeed giving false hopes (or rather promoting an unnatural liberalisation in a conservative society) to a small urban middle class is another negative effect. We saw this in Iran in the 1970s as the Shah started to liberalise the country at a rate which appalled many Iranians, driving them to the medressahs which allowed Khomeini to become so powerful, and usurp the Iranian Revolution into an Islamic one. Now the opposite is happening as young Iranians are put off from politicised Islam.

I don't think the Taliban have ever had much interest in, even less the resources to fund, exporting 'terrorism'. Rather like Saddam's non-existent weapon's of mass destruction, I think this is over-hyped media type-casting.

I certainly agree that there is a glimmer of hope. If nothing else I expect the map of go and no-go areas in Afghanistan will radically change as the Pashtun heartlands in the south see proper governance, and resistance emerges in the north. The northern borders may take quite some time to re-open, according to the feeling in those countries. Islamic fundamentalism is a major bogeyman in independent, post-Soviet Central Asia, in particular Uzbekistan. Probably the mountains in the interior (around the Minaret of Jam which I am desperate to see before it topples over) will remain quite lawless, and Nurestan too.

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

Thanks for this reading tipp, I am going to get the book because I never heard about her and her trip before!

I saw a video on youtube of german guy who entered from Turkey into Syria and tried to ride to Iraq in 2020 on a motorcycle. Having some safety issues after riding a week in Syria he decided to return to Turkey.

Think too that the Taliban have actually no interests in active exportation of in any kind of terrorism. This justified by their actual situation to get back afghanistan`s frozen and deposited capital and funds from the US. In my eyes a passive exportation of this idea through motivated radical islamic groups living in foreign countries is imaginable and should be watched.

Sadly the world is in the moment in a socially, financially and medical disbalance through the pandemic. Sudden changes in existing society behaviors can happen everywhere in different kind of expressions. A reason why my travel plans to certain countries are on hold for an undefined time. Think we all have recognized in our home countries how the load and pressure through the pandemic forced discussions and changes in our legal systems and in our social societies in the past 1,5 years.
I am convinced that this will be temporarily and will disappear when we all have learned how we can handle and live with a virus which will stay with us till the science found a solution to execute it.

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The worry to me would be that a spat would erupt between the Taliban and a Western power or its ally, and dependant upon your nationality, you may end up a pawn arrested for some ‘crime’.

Poor Afghanistan.


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At the moment Taliban show and behave extremly "too" friendly to all western goverments. The country is colapsing every day more and more. It`s a big difference to fight in a war than to gover a country and to keep infrastructure und a financial system healthy alive.

Afghanistan is fully bankrupt and its only a question of time when it will break down completly. Winter is coming and most of the food must be imported as ever. Without currency import business isn`t possible. People are standing hours and hours in a queue in the hope to get a small amount of the weekly maximum of possible 200$ from the atm.

Western goverments decisions are right now only humanitarian made and not politically motivated. At that moment when Taliban think that the issue with finance looks solved for them, they will forget friendlyness and show their real faces to the world.

Its a diabolical game what taliban are playing right now with the western goverments and media.

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A long read, but perhaps the best piece of journalism I have read on the occupation and the lead-up to current events.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...r-afghan-women

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.