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23 Feb 2008
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Just trying to infom
Sir,
It really pisses me off that you would hijack this thread and use it for political BS. Please come to talk the people who work, live and pay taxes in these countries and see what is actually happening TODAY.Travel through more than the "tourist" areas and spend some time with the people who invest their lives and fortunes in unstable futures, making these places "work".
Maybe I should have been more direct in my original post. The people of Bolivia were actually talking about a civil war in the near future andd finding a gas station that had both gasoline and diesel was near impossible.
Take the political BS elsewhere man, this aint the place.
ps Freddy is a standup dude, he gave us info on the road from Cochabamba to Montero
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24 Feb 2008
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Indeed
I,ve lived in Latin America for 14 years and right now 21st Century socialism has caused me to lose two employees and all the other people I know in business are losing people too!!!
Chaves Morales and Correa are a curse on the working man and anyone looking at the other examples e.g Colombia and Peru where the growth rates are similar to China.
Ah screw it I,m moving to San Fran to get a job in a recording studio!!!Why bother
Albert theturtleshead
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24 Feb 2008
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Tell it like it is Albert!
Running a business and going through the day to day trials and tribulations which amounts to your survival really gives you a perspective on a country like no motorcycle "passerthrough" can match. Let's face it. If things go wrong for them, they are just a plane ride away from their sterile and anticeptic point of origin. They don't have your "worry factor". Other than being website "chatterboxes", whatever happens in Bolivia doesn't really affect them at all.
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24 Feb 2008
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 Funny to see people telling others about not being political then be political them selfs. Mollydog just was expounding on the why of it from a point of view some may not have. I dont care if there left right or down the center as long as I can get in and see it for my self. I want the facts as much as anyone but facts with out the why are near useless. Its like Data with out information, Intelligence with out wisdom, like 35 with out 35pounds in the front tire. So I say vent away. But the HU BAR is better place on HUBB for pure political venting and surprisingly there is little there.
Not that most of this has any thing to do with what a traveler from the USA needs to get in to Bolivia. $100 for seeing the other side of the fence sounds good to me.
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26 Feb 2008
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I just finished an enjoyable ride through un-touristed areas of Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama. I tried to observe different cultures, peoples, politics, diets, lifestyles, etc., without judgement. I choose to live my life, and they live theirs.
Information about political turmoil, along with the causes and effects, is important to my travels. I enjoy reading different points of view and even a heated argument. Thanks everyone for sharing.
I haven't decided yet if I'll visit Bolivia. Lucky for me, one of my passports is in the Class 1 category.
I recomend everyone get an extra passport from an extra country. It's super handy to have more than one. It goes like this: passport please. Which one? says I. Is it better to have US or Panama? says I. Or I do some research ahead of time (like this forum) and decide ahead of time to show only my Panama passport if I go to Bolivia. I'll also make sure to get it stamped going into Peru, Chile, and Argentina, for in case I'm asked to show how I got to Bolivia in the first place.
Albert: take a chill pill or have another  ! You're quicker to anger than a scot- oh, wait, you're a Scotsman! Right. No worries. Right on!
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26 Feb 2008
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Hmmm
I don,t see how me having to deprive people of their livings is a light hearted chill pill situation.I hated having to lose these people,but It had to be that way to keep the ones with wives and children employed!!!
You keep enjoying your travels,I,ll keep being pissed off by stupid policies that affect me and the people that I employ.
Albert theturtleshead
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26 Feb 2008
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One Hundred Bucks A Small Price To Pay?
Think about it: we charge $100 for their citizens; they charge $100 for US citizens. This "reciprocity" is in effect in the following countries that I've visited to date:
1) Chile - currently only via Santiago International Airport; land crossings are no charge
2) Brazil - all border crossings: air, ship and overland
3) Zambia - though through some finesee and if you're not staying more than a day or two you can get a transit Visa; but can be tough to process. You'll pay $100 over land crossings
4) Tanzania - land, air and ship
South Africa, Malawi, Botswana & Namibia are all free except the useless "carbon tax" or "insurance tax" or other silly expenses. Just be sure you get a multiple entry visa that doesn't expire until your Passport does. It's a sad thing. But I can't say I blame them
and yes, Bolivia while Evo's socialist tendencies are not favorable to most of the world stage, and the $100 is a hefty price to pay, these are no reasons to boycott a great country with warm people, great roads and amazing natural scenery. Anyone who rides through south america and passes by the Salar de Uyuni is missing one of the most amazing land features on the planet.
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27 Feb 2008
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While I recognize American immigrations mistreats the entire world including its own citizens, the purpose of this Visa rule is to express contempt and hatred towards Americans.
I've had enough of that on this ride. If they don't want me to come, I won't.
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27 Feb 2008
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Does anyone know what it costs a Bolivian to visit the USA? I don't, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was $100. I am a big believer in free trade and travel, and I'm not defending him, but you can't really blame Morales for retaliating. Like a lot of protectionist acts, I don't think it's been thought through all the way. Most small businesses in Bolivia have a poster of Morales hanging up, so he seems to be a popular figure there.
I met 2 Ecuadorans that spent something like $600 each on visas to ride from Ecuador to Alaska. We in the US don't always realize how good we have it , as far as international travel goes.
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27 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Jock
While I recognize American immigrations mistreats the entire world including its own citizens, the purpose of this Visa rule is to express contempt and hatred towards Americans.
I've had enough of that on this ride. If they don't want me to come, I won't.
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Er, don't you think you might be taking this a wee bit personally? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this legislation wasn't codified just to piss you off...
It's reciprocal - nothing more, nothing less. Just like Brazil. The States charges Bolivian citizens $100, Morales is returning the favour. No expression of contempt nor hatred.
Suerte, Dan
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Que el cielo exista, aunque mi lugar sea el infierno...
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27 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan 23
Er, don't you think you might be taking this a wee bit personally? Suerte, Dan
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Given that I just rode through dozens of angry Peruvian mobs who barricaded my path, threw nails in front of my bike, threatened to slash my tires and tried to break into my luggage because of their hatred of American trade policy and the fact I've experienced nearly daily spontaneous expression of anti-Americanism for the last 4 months of my travels, I might be getting a little punchy.
The fact is the Bolivian government has gone out of its way to show I'm unwelcome. If they don't want me to come, fine.
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27 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldRider
Think about it: we charge $100 for their citizens; they charge $100 for US citizens. This "reciprocity" is in effect in the following countries that I've visited to date:
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I would be nice if they would reciprocate with the many hundreds of millions of dollars of humanitarian assistance we've been putting into their economy for decades as well.
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27 Feb 2008
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Finally, it seems improbable that migration of peoples between Bolivia and the US is reciprocal.
The average American headed to Bolivia is likely either a tourist or businessman. Either way he seeks to sprinkle alot of cash around and leave. A probable net benefit to the Bolivian economy.
The average Bolivian headed to America is more likely to be an economic refugee and possible illegal immigrant. Not necessarily a net economic benefit.
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27 Feb 2008
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Location: Chiangmai, Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Jock
Given that I just rode through dozens of angry Peruvian mobs who barricaded my path, threw nails in front of my bike, threatened to slash my tires and tried to break into my luggage because of their hatred of American trade policy and the fact I've experienced nearly daily spontaneous expression of anti-Americanism for the last 4 months of my travels, I might be getting a little punchy.
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Maybe its your attitude towards them, perhaps clouding your assessment of the situation.
It was an anti-government demonstration. They had barricades in place to stop 'business as usual' - you know, civil disobedience and all that. What you were doing was directly in opposition to their protest. Perhaps you should have found a place to park the thing for a day or two, then you wouldn't have confronted their opposition to running their barricades.
I haven't noticed that 'nearly daily spontaneous expression of anti-Americanism'. Of course, they have a low opinion of the U.S. government, but so do I.
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quastdog
Chiang Mai, Thailand
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27 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quastdog
Perhaps you should have found a place to park the thing for a day or two, then you wouldn't have confronted their opposition to running their barricades.
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That's what I was trying to do. But by the time I found out about the barricades I had already crossed the border and had about 20 of them between me and the nearest place to park the bike.
While I am pleased to see Bolivia assert its right to self deternmination, I have a distinct impression they are trying to send a message a bit beyond that.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/3...9d122bd3_o.jpg
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