The world is full of unarmed dead people.

Luckily for them, most of them died piecefully in there sleep.



------------------
- www.maartensworld.tmfweb.nl -

__________________
maartensworld.com
beyond-anywhere.com

I will never understand, the williness of some people, to lay down like sheep.

Sounds like this topic has gotten off the original question, which was whether to carry weapons when travelling in foreign countries.

Most countries do not allow weapons to be brought in or carried legally, and landing in jail for illegal possession of a weapon is probably not a desirable outcome to your trip.

I think there have been some very common sense suggestions about personal protection thus far.

For those who would like more info, we have reprised some of the US State Department info on Terrorism, Hijacking and Hostage Situations at:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tri...errorism.shtml

as well as other material on 'Don't be a Victim' at: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tri...CrimeAvoidance

Last word on this subject: People who go looking for trouble tend to find it. Our experience and those of all the travellers we've been in contact with over the years has been that most of the world is as safe or safer than your own country if you go with the right attitude.

Susan & Grant
'One World, Two Wheels'

P.S. This bulletin board is not the venue to get into a political debate on the 'right to bear arms', so let's not go there, please.

[This message has been edited by Susan (edited 01 June 2002).]

__________________
Susan Johnson

Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

I would never carry into a country that doesn't allow it....but I don't like that one bit. What is the world coming to when you are not allowed to defend yourself and your family by any means possible

I just expressed my opinion about carrying a weapon like everyone else......what's the big deal?...does everyone have to agree?

This has gotten way out of line as Susan stated. This is not the place to discuss the moral/political justification of packing. This will be a long one:
There are few countries in which the average citizen is allowed to carry a gun (this is carry – many countries allow ownership). These include the US, Israel, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Brazil, Cyprus, and a maybe a couple of others. Even within that country the laws may differ from region to region. In the US, every state sets its own carry laws. All but Vermont require a license, which ranges from easy to get (any North-West state) to downright impossible (New York, New Jersey). Many don’t honor other states permits and for a few states, individual cities can have differing laws. The risk of getting caught breaking a law is FAR GREATER than having somebody trying to kill you. What passes as normal in one place is a great offence in another. Stand on a street corner anywhere in Europe or North America and preach all day about the evils of Communism. Or the joys of free speech. Or whatever floats your boat. People will give you funny looks. Now try the same thing in North Korea or Cuba. Not so funny anymore eh? Now you are an “enemy of the people”. Want another example? Smoke weed in Amsterdam and loose a few brain cells. Repeat in China and loose your head. Is it worth getting caught? The Powers that Be are far more dangerous to your health than any mugger. I have walked the streets of Bucharest at night and slept next to bums in train stations in Venice. Its been said before – its mostly in your attitude. Leave your Glock at home – or the pepper spray for that matter as it is also illegal in most of the same countries that packing is illegal. It will be there when you get back.


------------------
-----
Improvement makes strait roads, but the crooked roads without Improvement, are roads of Genius - William Blake

__________________
Improvement makes strait roads, but the crooked roads without Improvement, are roads of Genius - William Blake

Just thought I'd clarify the Administrators' position on this topic, so I'll repeat my posting from 20 Sep 2001 in the Travellers Advisories Forum:

"The Horizons Unlimited Motorcycle Travellers Community includes folks from over 100 countries and all major religions. We believe in tolerance and respect for everyone, and do not feel that religious or political debates belong on the site.

We'd appreciate it if folks just provided factual information for the benefit of other travellers, and we will be editing postings if necessary to ensure no one is inflaming a very tense situation. CNN, BBC and other sites are encouraging debate and discussion, so please post your personal opinions there."

The HUBB has always been intended as a fact-based board, where people can ask for and provide information to help plan trips, deal with paperwork, transport, insurance, medical and other issues.

It is NOT intended or run as a 'chat' board, NOR to debate the great political or religious or cultural issues of our time (of which gun control is a big one). There isn't a shortage of other sites where you can get into that sort of debate, if that's what you want to do, so this isn't meant as a denial of anyone's free speech.

This doesn't mean that people don't have opinions, and when it comes to topics such as 'Which Bike?', where there is no definitive answer, all we ask is that opinions voiced should always respect those you are disagreeing with.

We have seldom had to censor the HUBB, but occasionally it is necessary to remind folks of the above policy.

I think this topic has been sufficiently covered, and I am now closing this thread, so I guess that gives me the last word! Have to have some privileges for being the Administrator.

Thanks
Susan

__________________
Susan Johnson

Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com