John Roberts, maybe you missunderstood me.
What you say is exactly what I wanted to mean.
Thank you for thinking the same way.
Lets all just be ONE WORLD, TWO WHEELS!


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Life is the process of making known the unknown. MOROcycler

__________________
THE Motorcycle JOURNEY is making known the unknown.
http://www.morocycler.smugmug.com

Travel thru montana, a US flag is normal but a flag from some other country!!!!!! You might have a steak dinner and a warm bed inflicted upon you.
Peace love and light.

Several references have been made on this thread to the fact it is common in the US for citizens to fly flags at their homes, whereas this is rare in Europe. This difference has been attributed to "nationalistic" or "patriotic" reasons. I believe the reasons why, at this point in time, displaying the flag is so common in the US are somewhat different, and would like to explain what I believe are the real reasons.

At least in the small community where I lived at the time, it was very unusual to see a US flag displayed at a home before the 9/11 attacks - I doubt if more than 1 - 2% did this. Within 48 hours of the attacks there were flags everywhere, by the thousands. I would estimate that 90% of the homes in that community now displayed flags, and they were commonly seen on automobiles and motorcycles also. I'm certain this was typical nationwide.

The displaying of the flag during that terrible time was, at least as I see it, a symbol of mourning and grief, caring about the suffering of others, and of solidarity with and support for the people of New York City who had suffered so much from the attack.

Flags are much less commonly displayed now than they were for the first few weeks after 9/11, but it is still considerably more common than it was prior to that date. Regarding the current tendency for Americans to display the US flag on their bikes when traveling, I assume that's somewhat of a cross over from the home flag display phenomenon. I personally have never displayed a flag on any of my motor vehicles, and never intend to do so. I did display the flag at my home for a few weeks after 9/ll for the reasons given above.

I hope this helps our friends in other countries understand the current tendency for Americans to display the flag, and that it isn't necessarily a sign of right wing, super-patriotic behavior, and certainly doesn't have any evil intent.

Mike

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Mike

It seems kind of funny everybody is pissed at the "yanks". We the "yanks" had 9/11 so we acted. Who would not have? Spain gets attacked and they go communist. I have lived in the Middle East (Turkey). People do not relize that the Middle Eastern culture is much different than western culture. I always find it kind of funny when people say it is not a religious war. They attacked us and said it was a religious war. That is there own admission. Unfortunately I believe America willl end up paying the price for its ignorance. Just my .02

Starting to stray off the topic of flags, but... I think the U.S. had huge world support following Sept 11th, and the same support going into Afghanastan.

Going into Iraq?

All we have are our opinions, rightly or wrongly, but its clear to me, the world is pissed at the U.S. involvement in Iraq, and not the general war on terrorisim.

Free Accomodation for visitors. Just wanted to flag this up Hi, I have enjoyed this thread. I'm kinda new to this board but extend free accomodation to folks. There's a G8 meeting 8 miles from my flat this year so I'm off to Mo(o)rocco. Although an experienced motorcyclist I've not traveled much in recent years so I needed a newer map of how the land lies. Being a carbon conscious type of gentleman I tried to nick one off a poster's website (but right clicking was verboten!) so here's the link. Please advise if this is current for my travels? http://www.thebrightstuff.com/mapWorldAlternative.htm

old women in their 70's lining up to vote in front of graffitti signs reading "if you vote, you die".

It's very humbling, to me anyway. I would like to think, but am I not sure, that I would have that kind of courage and conviction. I'm so proud for the Iraqi's today.


David Cate
Knoxville, TN USA

Personally, I'm only "pissed" with your govt.

You had 9/11, because your govt. and your multi-nationals have been going round killing innocent people by the millions and trampling their rights into the dirt, in the name of freedom, but in reality for power and profit. Please, don't take my word for it, check out my link above.

I didn't know Spain had "gone communist". As far as I know they elected a socialist govt., cause the conservative one sent its soldiers to Iraq, ignoring the will of the people. That's democracy in action (for once...).

I agree with you that ME culture is different. So what?

I also agree very much with your last statement. Except, the price you will be paying will be the end of your empire with all the suffering that goes with it. (I suspect other people will be paying an even higher price, but then, they already are.) It's completely avoidable, you just have to stop taking all your "news" from the corporate-controlled media and start to see things the way they really are. Try watching "Democracy Now!", read Amy Godman's book, or that of John Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". You will be outraged.

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Salut from Southern France, the bikers' paradise,

Peter.

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Cheers,
Peter.

Europe to NZ 2006-10

There are a lot of interesting arguments on this thread. Some good, some bad and some ugly.

What I find suprising is that so many of you guys (and girls) who have been around in the world a bit, seem to have fallen for a lot of anti-american propaganda instigated by the (former) Sovjet Union. It's rather clear that not all of your animosity towards the US is just because of Bush and his current wrongdoings. Does the word "Psyops" mean anything to any of you??? Like it or not (or maybe in this case; realize it or not...), a lot of European media and journalists have spewed out the leftist party line for so long that half-truths and fabrications have become "fact", in a nice attempt to draw attention away from the downsides of socialism and communism in practice. It's so much easier to bash the US...

The above was a bit offtopic (although not any more than a lot of the other posts above), but hopefully some of you will open your eyes at the bigger picture, and what has gone on, and is going on besides Bush/America. Things in the world aren't always as simple, and black/white as they may seem.

Back to the topic of flags; There is no way I can sympathize with, nor "understand" the emotions of people who resort to vandalism and violence towards a lonely biker (or 4x4 overlander) simply because he has his nations flag showing. It's sad that people in the world have become so ignorant that they start mixing individual citizens (who are openminded enough to vist their country!) together with unpopular politics.

Erik

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Well said Eric! The people who treated Global that way during his travells are no better than the people responsible for giving America such a bad name in the first place.

...I have yet to meet an overland adventurer who'se actions caused me to dis-like them. People like us tend to fall from the same tree. You dont see any hard-core Republican facists travelling around the globe on a motorcycle, do you? I think most people who would support American foreign policy are quite content staying in their own country, comfortable and oblivious to the opinion of the other 5 1/2 billion people out there.

I think Nelson Mandela has summed the whole situation up quite nicely: "It is a tragedy what is happening, what Bush is doing in Iraq"... "What I am condemning is that one power, with a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust".

I have heard of "psyops" and according to a top American army general it is being used by the U.S government (obviously with great success) to brainwash both the American public and the rest of the world into accepting their lies and propaganda.

I guess the world can only hope and pray that the American people wake up to what is happening and try to do something before it is too late.

For more details on the situation in Iraq see:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/thebadnews.html

Jenny

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Cheers,
Peter.

Europe to NZ 2006-10

I must be honest, I´ve never liked politics.
We bikers have, I think, real valors in the base, our community relies on freedom, respect and awareness.
Hard to carry in a sometimes greedy world where some believe crap will be the answer to their strange emptyness.
Just stay out of politics and you´ll be fine, let others watch you riding and maybe at the next election they´ll be to busy prepping their new bike instead of supporting any socialist, republican, nazi, terrorist, etc power hugry guru.

No matter how you are, you´ll find enemys everywhere but also much sympathy.
Stay alive and enjoy every chapter.

On the news I saw a GI pulling out a just shoot to death civil irakian from a car, the GI then said to reporter "this war is not worth all of the victims..", the guy looked really honest and his eyes was telling "how the hell could peoples home in front their televisions understand how it REALLY is".
Who could represent America better than a honest soldier? the greedy grandmomies and their right for vote?

I´m very happy about this forum,

Matt

I think flags do more bad than good no matter what country they come from. Its not an including symbol, its an excluding symbol.

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Dizzie

Just these:

Did anyone notice that the vandalism was against the bike, not the person?


Not all overlanders that I crossed on my path where that open minded. The average openmindedness might be somewhat better then ... average though.

Just recalling the original Text: "and I got ran off the road (intentionally) "
and this means PERSONALLY.
I found this Topic to be one of the hottest at this time. Who can tell when it is going to end but,
Just Common Sense (the most un-common of the senses) Do not show where you were born if that puts you in danger! Period.
I think all these posts have been a good excuse for many people to express their disaproval NOT to those who damaged our fellow motocyler, but to throw hate to the US government.
It is fun to see how little is needed to triger the need of expressing disagreement.
It is nice to be part of the world but it is bad to be part of a country.



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Life is the process of making known the unknown. MOROcycler

__________________
THE Motorcycle JOURNEY is making known the unknown.
http://www.morocycler.smugmug.com