i guess you entirely missed the point of safety going hand in hand with religion in certain places...

i for one have no qualms about discussing religion or politics if and as they relate to safety in a forum on travel safety. the point is to inform people. if the violence is a result of religious fanatics or political unrest, the discussion should go forward limited only by relevance to the situation.

I doubt its the local populace that want kill you.
The attack took place some way off the KKh at or near Nanga Parbat base camp... its a fair hike from the road to there.
Gilgit is a "frontier" town and felt like it in some parts when I was there. At the same time we were befriended by a local guy that took us round the bazaar for the day.
Dassu, that is on the KKH, had a much more sinister air about it. We were staying at the Khyber Lodge Hotel when the Red Mosque incident was taking place in Islamabad. Apart from a few gunshots from/on the roof The Pakistani tourist guys staying there were very amiable and even fed us for a couple of days as supplies were running short due to rock-slide near Pattan that closed the road for a week.

Most people just want to get on with their lives. Only the radicals want to harm you. Its the same everywhere.

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Nostradamus Ate My Hamster

But it's not religion is it, it's the criminal actions of crazed loonies. If it was religion then exactly the same would be happening everywhere where people of a certain religion live, which is clearly not the case.

The actions of these idiots is neither mandated nor condoned by any religion on the surface of the earth; they may claim they are acting religiously but that's just bullshit, and you repeating those claims as if they are correct is a case of falling for their propaganda.

So why do they do it? Like I said, economic issues, territorial disputes, money, power, glory, feelings of humiliation; all the worst effects of the 'haves and havenots' splits that underpin the global economic and gubernatorial system with all its disparities, not to mention simple bad-assery; evil in some hearts

I think we can quite clearly say 'watch out for X' or 'be careful in Y because of local tensions' etc without casting aspersions on local peoples, religions, traditions, customs etc

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That concrete whizzing by five inches below your foot is the real thing...

good God man! you really can't read! it's as if you read someone else's posts and are trying to pick a fight with me. anyway, i made my point and will not beleaguer this ridiculous matter.

Thanks for your enlightening words

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That concrete whizzing by five inches below your foot is the real thing...

Just as an example, when visiting Northern Ireland it is probably best to know if you are in a Catholic or Protestant neighbourhood, even today.
Within Baltistan, it seems to be a problem if you adhere to the Shia form of Islam.
It is an excellent point, well made, that such violence has now been perpetrated on the ferengi in the region rather than on only the local population; however, this is certainly not a new phenomena in many other parts of the planet.

Anyone, on a personal level, or State level, can be motivated by one (or more combinations) of:-
1.Greed, usually for money (name your price, I'll double it and you will do my bidding).
2.Vanity (Self-aggrandisement).
3.Revenge (I will help you to extract vengenge on your enemy, and in return ..............).
4.Fear.

To this short list we can add Fanaticism/Zealotry, which has existed throughout recorded history, but it has become common nowadays, and it is spreading. The historians of the future might be able to bring more light on this aspect.

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Dave

Ladies and Gentlemen, lets refrain from unnecessarily associating religions and nationalities with untoward incidents. Lets improve the public image of bikers making them look more civilized and educated.

We, Pakistanis are already suffering and can do without more.
Everything isn't as simple as the media wants you to believe. Seeds of this nonsense were carefully planted in 80s by the lone super power and later nurtured, financed and armed by the same.


‪Hillary Clinton CONFESSION About TALIBAN- US responsible for Pakistan situation‬‏ - YouTube - Video Dailymotion

And then they shamelessly left making me deal with this utter nonsense alone.

yes, obviously all of pakistan's problems are the US' fault.

yes because in the 80's there was only one super-power...

And yet, it's not logical, as Spock would say.
Nor are those carrying out these atrocities necessarily drawn from locals.

There is far more chance of ending your days in a traffic accident etc etc than being shot to death in some remote area of the world.
It may be a good concept to stay away from popular haunts of the ferengi, whether it be a well-known hotel for climbers at Nanga Parbat base camp, or a bar on the island of Bali.

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Dave

But there is more than one player at the table.
A Deadly Triangle: Afghanistan, Pakistan and India | Brookings Institution

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Dave

You're right that many of them might not be locals, I guess I should have said that I generally avoid areas where there are any people that are actively trying to kill me, regardless of where they're from.

But I disagree that it is not logical, for a couple of reasons. While you might be right that I'm at much risk riding the streets of Moscow as travelling in the tribal areas in Pakistan, you're missing the point. While I could be struck by a meteorite or hit by a bus in Moscow, this is my home, I feel comfortable with the risks here and rightly or wrongly I think I can--and indeed have--dealt with the risks here by keeping my wits about me.

Moreover, I travel for relaxation and enjoyment and to interact with the local populace, but guess what--if I have to worry about there being a militant checkpoint around every corner, or whether my innkeep or the waiter is alerting the local nutjobs as soon as I've checked in, I won't relax or enjoy the trip, or have any desire to deal with locals. So what exactly is the point of travelling to such places? To see some natural beauty? I can see that in many places. Just to say I went there? Sorry, not interested...

I am sure that we all do, to one extent or another, and that is the issue at the heart of the nervousness expressed earlier.
It just remains the case that while we are not prepared to be gunned down, or blown up, during our travels, we do accept the statistically more likely causes of death or serious injury as beiing tolerable.


Quite so.
I'm aware of this phenomena which is very prevalent among humans - Spock can't understand us for this reason alone!!
To stick with the traffic example, a high proportion of traffic accidents occur to people who are close to their "home patch"; they are on known ground and tend to drop their guard - a case of familiarity breeds complacency, is one way of expressing this. There are numerous examples.


Yes, this is another phenomena, such as tourism in post-conflict areas.
It has a range of manifestations, including the oft quoted "bragging rights down the pub".
Similarly, I have little interest in skipping through a country on a transit visa, seeing a few sites/sights-that-must-be-seen and sticking a badge/flag on the panniers; the "been there, done that, collected another country" syndrome.
Interaction with people, yes! To do that, it is best to have an inkling of the local situation, background, history, religious following(s) and similar factors.

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Dave

For what it is worth. I was hoping to go to this area next year to climb broad peak and an attempt on K2. I have decided in light of recent events not to go. I believe there is a great deal of difference between being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being part of a target group.

These bad guys aren't especially clever but they are cunning and it is not likely that their next targets will be climbers in the high Himalaya.
Apart from that, a year is a long time for things to change, but I do understand that you need to make such climbing plans well ahead of the due date, for many reasons.

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Dave