What would a Canadian have to do to buy a Canadian registered bike from a Canadian [ had enough Canadians??] in Europe?
Drive around on the old owners registration and plate with a Transfer of ownership document?
Is signing the back transfer good enough?
What about the time limits for changing registration? Does it matter in Europe + Balkans if the Present rider/owner has Insurance?
Other than green card do many people drive bikes less tha 4 years old without comprehensive insurance?
Is it easily obtained.

Thanks:

I think the biggest problem that would have to be overcome would be the requirement (in most Canadian provinces) to have a safety check carried out on the vehicle before transferring the registration as a 'fit vehicle' (vehicle that is entitled to plates) to another person. This would present a huge logistical headache if the moto is in Europe.

There is also the nuisance matter of GST / provincial sales tax to contend with.

If only the back of the registration was signed, but the original plate belonging to the seller was still on the bike, I think that would mean very little... if push came to shove, the seller would still be considered to be the person responsible for the vehicle.

Michael

So if the seller signed off the back of the registration and transferred ownership [ even with a Notorised form] he/she would still be responsible. Suppose ; crazy I know, that the seller continued to insure the bike, reimbursed by the seller.
The green card would be had and carried by the buyer in his travels.

Extremely grey area I know but could that work?

PanEuropean has covered the inter provincial aspect I think, if you have to do an OOP inspection you are hooped.

In theory it could, depends where you intend to ride, in Europe you will probably get away with it, but start trying to cross borders outside of Europe with a language barrier - they will look at the registration document and your passport and you could potentially get refused entry, or be let into a country and have the bike impounded as you are not the owner - even with a notary form explaining the change of ownership, unless it is in each countries different language. Even then it would be sketchy at best and you could potentially leave yourself open to having to pay bribes to continue.


Then you have to look at the biggest issue, would most people let you ride a motorbike around while it is registered in their name and potentially be liable for your actions as the rider? I let my mates ride my bikes, covered by my insurance with my permission, but not a person I don't know.

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

1. In any case you need the right "motorcycle riding" class on your driver's licence.

2. Regulation varies from a province to another. It's possible to change province of registration against an inspection in the import jurisdiction.

3. If same province, you could normally provide power of attorney to a friend / relative to register the bike in your name in your province, provided that you don't have to get the bike inspected.

4. In addition to registration service fees (and taxes) which sometimes includes liability insurance (Qc notably) most provincial registration services ask for proof of insurance in Canada prior to registering the bike, so you'd have to negotiate an insurance policy with a Canadian company first. In some cases, more likely if you do not already have an insurance let's say for a house or else, the insurer may ask to see the bike but usually can accept dated photos.

With more details I assume you can get a ore precise answer, nothing like calling the other side of the Atlantic ocean and ask! Good luck.

I think you are missing the point.

The vehicle is registered to whomever the title document says it is registered to. Until the organization that maintains the register of vehicles (in other words, the provincial government) amends their register, and at the same time amends the document they give you that confirms the registration of the vehicle with the registrar, it's still registered to the person whose name appears on the document.

In some jurisdictions, the legislation allows a grace period of a week or so during which a new owner can operate a vehicle they have bought while it is still registered to the person who sold it. But, that grace period is only intended to allow sufficient time to get to the registrar and update things. In provinces that follow a "plate belongs to owner" model, rather than "plate belongs to vehicle", the owner is legally obliged to remove their plate from the vehicle at the time they sell it. Ontario is such a province, I don't know about the other provinces.

Michael

Not necessarily. You are confounding operating the vehicle with owning the vehicle. My wife owns my motorcycle, it is registered in her name, but she does not possess a driver licence to operate a motorcycle.

Similarly, a company could own the vehicle, and a company doesn't have a driver licence.

Michael

Hi Michael , do Canadian authorities accept ADAC as an institution that is trustfull to make annual safety check? Can this be a solution to at least this part of the "problem".

Cheers
Dooby

BC vehicles are supposed to be very difficult to change over registration remotely, partly because the old plates have to be handed in and the new owner gets given new plates at the same time.

A little off-topic I know, but all the concerns PanEuropean is raising apply equally to buying vehicles in Central and South America.

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Hi Dooby:

No. In fact, there is no provision that I know of for one Canadian province to even accept a safety check carried out by a technician who is approved by a neighboring province to do safety checks.

The root of the problem is that vehicle registrations - which are a provincial matter here in Canada - are based on the premise that the province in which the vehicle is being registered is the 'primary base of operations' for the vehicle. Hence, the various provinces have only made provisions for safety inspections carried out by technicians approved by that particular province to be accepted. Because provinces can only regulate matters within their own domain, they only approve technicians who are based within the province that is approving them.

In theory, a technician approved by a province could travel to another location (in or out of Canada) to inspect and approve a vehicle, but for the purpose of the topic under discussion here, that would be economically impractical.

A vehicle physically located out of province could be re-registered to a new owner without having a safety check carried out, but in such a case it would be classed as 'unfit' and not eligible for a licence plate. Doing things that way would fully address the legal issues associated with ownership and who is responsible for the vehicle, but would mean that the vehicle could not be operated because it would have no licence plate.

All the provinces have provisions to issue a temporary plate (usually good for about 2 weeks) to allow an unfit vehicle to be driven to the new province of registration to have a safety check carried out, but that provision would not help in this circumstance, where the vehicle is in another country and there is no intention of bringing it back to a province to register and plate it.

The whole process and whole set of regulations makes sense and works well 99.999% of the time, but in 'corner cases' such as this one, where the vehicle is out of the country, there is no way that I know of to work around it. If one were to ask a provincial regulator for an exception, the most likely response would be "Hey, if you have no intention of operating the vehicle in this country, let alone this province, then you really should not be plating (as opposed to simply registering) the vehicle in this province."

Exceptionally, a vehicle can be registered federally (and fitted with 'Canada' plates, as opposed to provincial plates) for long-term operation outside of Canada, but this practice is restricted to vehicles operated by the Government of Canada, for example, military or diplomatic vehicles, or (very rarely) vehicles operated in areas such as Antarctica where there is no local authority for registering and plating vehicles. Occasionally, you will see a private vehicle with 'Canada' plates in another country, but that will almost always be a vehicle belonging to a person serving in the Canadian Military overseas.

Michael

What does a Canadian do when their vehicle is out of the province (or country) when re-registration is due? Surely there's a provision of some sort....? Or are Canadians unable to take long vacations--say, 6 months in Florida?

Safety checks are normally only required when there is a change of ownership of a vehicle.

Most provinces offer the option of renewing the plates for either 1 or 2 years at a time. If someone is going to be out of the country for 6 months (for example, winter in Florida), they will usually renew the plates ahead of time, before they leave, if the plate is going to expire in the near future.

I believe that Florida (by exception) has some kind of program that allows out of state 'winter residents' to put Florida plates on their vehicle for the duration of the time they expect to stay in Florida. I can't tell you much more about this, I remember a friend doing this about 40 years ago, and have not heard anything more about it since then.

Michael

Thanks for your posts. It's not often during this election season that I feel fortunate to be living in the States!

Mark

Hi Mark:

Yeah, our provincial governments kinda go overboard on safety checks for cars. But, in a way, it's good... it is extremely rare to ever see a 'beater' on the road that causes you to doubt whether or not the brakes or tires or other critical components are adequate.

We're nothing though when compared to Switzerland. There, when a car is about 5 years old, it needs to go through a 'control' that takes a skilled tech about half a day to complete, and the car has to be found to be perfect in every respect. That's why you see so many cars in places like Morocco or other African countries with CH stickers on the back... the vast majority of cars just get exported once they are 5 years old.

As for the Germans & the TUV approval required for every single modification - heck, it's easier to keep an aircraft compliant with regs than to keep a car compliant in Germany.

Michael

Province of Ontario (one province in Canada) registered motorcycles can have their ownerships changed to a different name even if the motorcycle is in Europe. It does not require a "safety certification" as that is only necessary when getting a new license plate for the motorcycle. However, this change of ownership would require a physical person present in Ontario.

As for getting new plates, this could also be done but would require a "very cooperative" mechanic in Ontario willing to give you a "safety certification" without seeing the motorcycle.....and there are some.