 |
26 May 2007
|
 |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London but a bit everywhere
Posts: 183
|
|
|
Carnet de Passage, how they valuate the bike?
Hello all,
I have been browsing through this website for a few months now (great site by the way, lots of info all in one place) and I see a lot of you guys are experienced travellers so I thought I'd ask for advice:
I am planning a trip to southeast Asia that possibly stretches to Australia (trying to touch AU soil by Xmas), I will be travelling solo with my XTZ660 (3YF) 1995 registered in the UK (no offroad adventure, I will stick on roads) and leaving at the beginning of Sept this year.
The question: I checked the RAC website and I understand that in order to travel through Iran, Pakistan, India etc they require a deposit equal to 500 percent of the value of the bike. My question is: how they valuate my 1995 XTZ? Is there an official chart somewhere or can they calculate this from the original receipt I still keep from when I bought my bike? And if so considering I paid £1100 for it I will have to leave behind more than 5K just to leave the country? (not mentioning the other paperwork, of course), I think this is a bit too much.
My other question is: if I were to produce a receipt of £450, will I have to pay "only" £2500??? And how about one for £100? Would they drink this? And if (hypothetically) I got the bike for free – I know this is a bit too much now...???
This is a bit confusing for me and it is one of my major concern because I may not come back with the bike (have someone in AU who may keep it) so I may not be able to return the carnet properly filled in to RAC, I may actually not come back to the UK ever (I am originally from Italy, been living in London for a few years now and I have been feeling like doing this trip and I am not sure whether I will b back to the UK or not – will be leaving my job, flat and everything else, so time-wise I will have total freedom) so I am considering the money spent for the carnet "lost" already and of course, I am trying to minimise this loss, I am about to send the request form for the carnet next week but I don’t know what to expect. Does anyone have any experience on this?
Many thanks in advance.
__________________
... and Nelly The Elephant packed the trunk and said goodbye to the circus...
|
26 May 2007
|
 |
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Edinburgh, Lothian, Scotland
Posts: 1,350
|
|
|
Pretty sure as long as you value the bike at a realistic 'going rate' no-one will question it. i.e. the going rate for a scruffy bike of your model, year etc. No-one questioned my rather low valuation of my 2003 XT.
You don't have to leave the full deposit. You can 'insure' the bike. This means you pay a premium to an insurance company who theoretically* cover you in the instance that the bike is stolen or whatever and you are landed with importation taxes, this premium is a lot less than 500% of the bikes value ( from memory mine was about 30% of the bikes value). The downside is you only get 50% of the 'insurance' premium back, so you lose a few hundred quid, depending on the value of you bike (much less than this for your bike I'd imagine. You will get this info. with your Carnet application you get from the RAC.
Of course if you are not re-importing the bike into the country you will lose the whole premium.
Be quick though, my Carnet took three months to process.
Matt
* They won't.
__________________
http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com
http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/
*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such! 
Last edited by Matt Cartney; 26 May 2007 at 20:11.
|
26 May 2007
|
|
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Golden, CO USA...on the road since Sept 2005
Posts: 343
|
|
|
Hi Alex, I'm currently operating under my second carnet. From what I gather, different countries and companies do things differently. If possible, speak with more than one outfit. I obtained my carnets from the Canadian Automobile Association. With regard to valuation, a receipt did nothing for me- they didn't even want one. They wanted to know the year/model of my bike and they needed the VIN (vehicle Ident number) and bike registration. They requested 2 photos of the bike as well. Each company will have their own way of assigning your ride a value- this may not be left up to you. I extended my first carnet when I decided to ride through Rwanda, Uganda, Sudan and Egypt- due to the lack of pages in my original carnet. I was also told I needed to put up 800% of my bikes value for Egypt. For whatever reason, I didn't have to increase my deposit for Egypt. Things do vary from company to company. My second carnet was issued in a few days, the first was delayed due to my being on the road. In South Africa a carnet can be obtained in less than 48 hours. It just depends on where you are and who you talk to. Good luck, H.
|
26 May 2007
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London but a bit everywhere
Posts: 183
|
|
|
Am I getting this right?
Thank you for your reply Matt, it has been very helpful, I have downloaded the forms from RAC website, application form, fees etc, apparently they go hand-in-hand with RL Davison&Co Lloyd’s Insurance Company in fact from the same webpage you can get the Davison’s “Carnet Liability Proposal Form” which states “The cost of providing the guarantee is normally 10% (+insurance premium tax) of the indemnity requirement as stated under question 13 on the front of this form”. Question 13 asks: “Amount of indemnity required (as stated by RAC Motoring Services)” so I assume I will have to send the application for the carnet to RAC first, get a quote and then contact these brokers?
So if I got it right:
1) 500percent of the value of the bike: £2500 (I would say the bike is worth £500 just because I couldn’t find a chart or something that shows a quotation of an XTZ ‘95 anywhere on the internet tonight)
2) Carnet straight fee: £150
3) RAC “refundable” deposit: £350 (but refundable “when” exactly?)
4) 10percent of indemnity insurance plus another 5percent
it makes:
£250 for the brokers plus an additional 5% (they apply a minimum charge of £200 by the way)
+£150 carnet
+£350 “refundable”
TOTAL: a bit more than £750 for this Carnet, does it sound right?
Has anybody left with a similar bike? How much the carnet has been quoted? Just to give me an idea...
************
Note for Hook: apparently the only organisation issuing The Carnet in the UK is RAC and the application form asks you for the value of the vehicle, I don’t know whether they will want more info at a later stage... I think I will ask the guy that sold the bike to me to make another receipt for me for £450 and I will send it with the application and see what happens...
__________________
... and Nelly The Elephant packed the trunk and said goodbye to the circus...
|
27 May 2007
|
 |
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 887
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexpezzi
3) RAC “refundable” deposit: £350 (but refundable “when” exactly?)
|
Check with whoever issues your carnet, e.g. the RAC. You might not necessarily have to return the bike to your starting point to reclaim your deposit.
Since the point of the carnet (other than to identify your bike) is to deter you from selling it illegally in countries which have very high government import duties and to guarantee payment of those duties should you do so, it could be enough to have both entry and exit stamps from those specific countries.
For example, if you take a bike from the UAE to the UK, you can recover your deposit by just returning the correctly stamped carnet for countries along the route (normally in this example, stamped both “in” and “out” of Iran).
Stephan
|
29 May 2007
|
|
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Edinburgh, Lothian, Scotland
Posts: 1,350
|
|
|
Hi,
Stephano makes a very good point, your deposit (£350 refundable RAC deposit) and 50% of your insurance premium are refunded on return of your carnet to the RAC (it takes a few weeks to process). As long as you have 'in' and 'out' stamps for all countries requiring a carnet, you should get your refund back even if the bike is not in the UK.
If I remember right the RAC organised my insurance with R.L. Davison for me, I just sent my cheque to them.
Your estimate of the cost sounds about right.
The RAC did not ask me for any verification of the bike's value, they took my word for it.
Matt
__________________
http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com
http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/
*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!
|
11 Jun 2007
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London but a bit everywhere
Posts: 183
|
|
|
Carnet quotation letter from RAC (UK)
Hey!!!
Something strange happened!!! I sent all the paperwork for the carnet in only on Thursday via 1st class and today (Monday) I have found the quotation letter from RAC in my letterbox!!! That was very quick... they may be in need of money as well...
But anyway, I wanted to post a scan of the quotation I have received for every first-time traveller (like me) to view.
Just one point to note: I wasn’t sure how they would valuate my bike so I sent a copy of my receipt for £450 but as you can see from the scan “Following referral to insurers, require minimum vehicle value of £1,000”, too bad...
Now, to balance this promptness, I am sure they will take 6 months to issue the carnet...
-picture is attached (I have darkened the personal info)- I will let you know how long it takes for the carnet to arrive, I hope it won't take 3 months like yours Matt..! Thank you for your help by the way, really grateful!
__________________
... and Nelly The Elephant packed the trunk and said goodbye to the circus...
|
12 Jun 2007
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London
Posts: 41
|
|
|
Why the RAC????
Hi there,
why do you use the RAC (which actually COSTS you money) as there are very friendly people working at the ADAC in Munich (German Automobile Association). We used them (Duth/British couple with English registred Land Rover) and we are on our second carnet with them. They do need the deposit in cash though but you will get it ALL back after your trip when your last page in your carnet is stamped in ANY European Union country.
They issue it there and then for you (which takes 30 minutes) so if you go that way anyway...
Check their website; ADAC - Ihr Partner in allen Fragen rund um die Mobilität. (Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil-Club)
It's all in English as well.
Roel
www.popadd.com/overlandy2006
|
22 Jul 2007
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London but a bit everywhere
Posts: 183
|
|
|
Carnet arrived
Hello All,
a quick update just for the statistics, the carnet arrived on Wed the 18th of July via Special Delivery, exactly one month after I sent the cheque, the original request has been sent on the 7th of June.
The cheque is still unclaimed in my account though..... mmm... £1,025.... you know when they say: "Temptation....." 
__________________
... and Nelly The Elephant packed the trunk and said goodbye to the circus...
Last edited by alexpezzi; 22 Jul 2007 at 02:48.
|
20 Aug 2007
|
|
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 2
|
|
|
Carnet issues
Four of us bought 1999 Dommies for around the £3000 mark each and we did up a dodgy receipt for them all at £100 each.
This worked fine.
Cheap Carnet! Only prob was, we did not need them. No body asked for them except Turkey (After we had bought local insurance).
Im no expert but If I was to do a ride from Uk to Oz again, I would not bother.
|
3 Sep 2007
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 42
|
|
I had my dealer asses the blue book wholesale value for my bike and sent that in to CAA here in Canada.
But they based their valuation on the "Sanford and Evans Gold Book Value" which was 50% higher ($4000 vs $6200). Argh
Fortunately it doesn't make a big hill of beans for me as my most "expensive" country is only 110% duty. But still, I'd really like to try and sell my beat up '03 650GS for $6,200. CAA hasn't seen all the broken plastics on my bike, nor do they know her history. Alas, they don't care.
Now the battle is to get a letter of credit from my bank...  ...a little tricky because the Bank manager didn't even know what I was talking about.
Mitch
|
3 Sep 2007
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 104
|
|
I was speaking the the main carnet chap at the RAC just the other day and he said that if you do not get both the "in & out" stamps done, but you do return the vehicle to the UK, just go down to your local police station and get them to witness that the vehicle has returned and the RAC would be happy with that.
Couldn't be fairer really
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Cartney
Hi,
Stephano makes a very good point, your deposit (£350 refundable RAC deposit) and 50% of your insurance premium are refunded on return of your carnet to the RAC (it takes a few weeks to process). As long as you have 'in' and 'out' stamps for all countries requiring a carnet, you should get your refund back even if the bike is not in the UK.
If I remember right the RAC organised my insurance with R.L. Davison for me, I just sent my cheque to them.
Your estimate of the cost sounds about right.
The RAC did not ask me for any verification of the bike's value, they took my word for it.
Matt
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|
helps answer the question - Why Go? Inspirational stories by veteran travellers Greg Frazier (5 times RTW), Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries), Tiffany Coates (Mongolia Mayhem) and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).
Get Ready! covers planning, paperwork, medical and many other topics! "Inspirational and Awesome!" See the trailer here!
What stuff do I need - riding gear, clothing, camping gear, first aid kit, tires, maps and GPS? What don't I need? How do I pack it all in? Lots of opinions from over 150 travellers!
break down language barriers, overcome culture shock, ship the bike and deal with breakdowns and emergencies."Just makes me want to pack up and go!" See the trailer here!
Grant demystifies the black art of Tire Changing and Repair to help you STAY on the road! "Very informative and practical." See the trailer here!
Ladies on the Loose! For the first time ever, a motorcycle travel DVD made for women, by women! These intrepid women share their tips to help you plan your own motorcycle adventure. They also answer the women-only questions, and entertain you with amazing tales from the road! Presented by Lois Pryce, veteran solo traveller through South America and Africa and author of 'Lois on the Loose', and 'Red Tape and White Knuckles.'
Cotton or synth sweat-wicking t-shirts with the cool Horizons Unlimited graphic on the front and a snappy slogan (changing every year) on the back.
Show your route on your panniers. Great conversation starter when you meet people on the road!
Motorcycle and travel books to inspire and inform you!
The definitive guide to planning your motorcycle adventure! This insanely ambitious 2-year project has produced an informative and entertaining 5-part, 18 hour video series. "The ultimate round the world rider's how-to!" MCN UK.
Linear Mode
