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**Walkabout** · #**166** 22 Mar 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by macfisto

Can I get MOT/ITV, tax and insurance as soon as I enter Spain from Morocco, say in Algeciras?

It seems unlikely, given your UK licence plate, that you can get the Spanish ITV to be recognised to apply to your vehicle.
You probably know that for the MOT testing to be valid the testing station has to log on to some website or other (VOSA/DVLA??) for a minimum length of time that is related to the complexity of the vehicle test process; some test stations have lost their testing status on this account alone.

On another thread you have discounted using a van to get the bike back to the UK, so that appears to leave the alternative of riding the bike back here very carefully indeed i.e. as you say, you may not be covered by your insurance if involved in a claim from any party (because of the lack of a valid MOT certificate, but this may not be the case - it depends on the insurance company, their insurance assessor and your full circumstances). It is very unlikely that you will be asked to show UK specific documents (MOT, tax disc) unless you are involved in an accident or when near the channel ports, at which point the French authorities are reputed to be much more aware of the UK legal requirements for motor vehicles.
Ferry, Santander >> UK worth considering?
On arrival in UK, go straight to a pre-booked MOT test which happens to be near to where you are heading in any case (or get a mate to pick you up with his van, or get a transport outfit to take the bike to your address).

**macfisto** · #**167** 22 Mar 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkabout

On another thread you have discounted using a van to get the bike back to the UK, so that appears to leave the alternative of riding the bike back here very carefully indeed i.e. as you say,

Cheers again, it seems like I'll have to take the chance, did you send me a link on a route, as I'm unable to click on it?

Santander it'll have to be I guess.

I'm currently trying to make a ITV appointment in Ceuta or Algeciras, at least I have tried my best to be as legal as humanly possible.

read this Any way of getting a MOT in spain, or equivalent. it seems a MOT/ITV in Algeciras is possible on a UK plate. Can anyone confirm any truth in this?

In the above link, only an opinion but might be true:

I have friends who have had their UK plated car ITV'd.

Not all ITV stations can issue to UK plates, but some can. It is meant to cover you for your journey back to UK, although not to drive around on for months on end. Ask around at your local ITV stations. The one's I know that do it are based in Marbella and Algeciras so I don't think they will be any use to you.

**PanEuropean** · #**168** 23 Mar 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

...I might not like the 150% price hike at Knopf in the last three years...

Just a bit of information here, not necessarily for the benefit of Mike (the original poster), but certainly for the benefit of anyone from outside Europe who comes along reading this discussion to learn about how to get 'Green Card' insurance coverage within Europe...

'Green Card' insurance issued within Europe for motorcycles from outside Europe - in other words, tourist coverage - is pretty much a fungible commodity, much like 98 octane gasoline. The price is, for the most part, fixed within a very narrow band, because there are only a few underwriters at the very bottom of it all who write this cover.

There are, however, many different resellers who offer this insurance - along with a variety of value-added services, such as going to the local office and fetching it for you, posting it to you in advance, accepting credit cards as payment, and so forth. These value added resellers mark up the price of the basic insurance policy to cover the cost of the services that they add.

For many years, I bought my Green Card coverage in person at an ADAC (German Automobile Association) office. That's the same place that Knopf buys it. Because I was willing and able to buy it in person at the ADAC office, I didn't have to pay the mark-up that Knopf adds in exchange for going and getting the insurance for you and posting it to you.

Several years ago, ADAC increased their prices substantially - perhaps as a result of a run of losses selling this insurance due to claims payouts, etc. Around that time, we all discovered Mototouring in Italy, who were selling the same product for less than ADAC (and, obviously, less than Knopf), and most of us regulars switched to buying from Mototouring.

Remember, what you are buying is, like gasoline, fungible: It's the same thing, no matter where you get it and no matter what you pay for it. It is basic minimum liability insurance for the EU countries plus Switzerland. Unless you need something unique, such as theft coverage or collision coverage (offered by Motorcycle Express), extended country coverage for countries outside of the EC (also offered by Motorcycle Express), or personalized service available by email from overseas (offered by Knopf), just shop for your Green Card based on price. Because, like gasoline, you get the same product regardless of what the name of the vendor (Shell, Esso, Total, Mobil) on the company sign is.

Michael

**Walkabout** · #**169** 23 Mar 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanEuropean

Just a bit of information here, not necessarily for the benefit of Mike (the original poster), but certainly for the benefit of anyone from outside Europe who comes along reading this discussion to learn about how to get 'Green Card' insurance coverage within Europe...

'Green Card' insurance issued within Europe for motorcycles from outside Europe - in other words, tourist coverage - is pretty much a fungible commodity, much like 98 octane gasoline. The price is, for the most part, fixed within a very narrow band, because there are only a few underwriters at the very bottom of it all who write this cover.

There are, however, many different resellers who offer this insurance - along with a variety of value-added services, such as going to the local office and fetching it for you, posting it to you in advance, accepting credit cards as payment, and so forth. These value added resellers mark up the price of the basic insurance policy to cover the cost of the services that they add.

For many years, I bought my Green Card coverage in person at an ADAC (German Automobile Association) office. That's the same place that Knopf buys it. Because I was willing and able to buy it in person at the ADAC office, I didn't have to pay the mark-up that Knopf adds in exchange for going and getting the insurance for you and posting it to you.

Several years ago, ADAC increased their prices substantially - perhaps as a result of a run of losses selling this insurance due to claims payouts, etc. Around that time, we all discovered Mototouring in Italy, who were selling the same product for less than ADAC (and, obviously, less than Knopf), and most of us regulars switched to buying from Mototouring.

Remember, what you are buying is, like gasoline, fungible: It's the same thing, no matter where you get it and no matter what you pay for it. It is basic minimum liability insurance for the EU countries plus Switzerland. Unless you need something unique, such as theft coverage or collision coverage (offered by Motorcycle Express), extended country coverage for countries outside of the EC (also offered by Motorcycle Express), or personalized service available by email from overseas (offered by Knopf), just shop for your Green Card based on price. Because, like gasoline, you get the same product regardless of what the name of the vendor (Shell, Esso, Total, Mobil) on the company sign is.

Michael

Nice summary Michael that is often not known to those who take out insurance just once a year, or thereabouts, and forget about it thereafter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by macfisto

Cheers again, it seems like I'll have to take the chance, did you send me a link on a route, as I'm unable to click on it?

Santander it'll have to be I guess.

I'm currently trying to make a ITV appointment in Ceuta or Algeciras, at least I have tried my best to be as legal as humanly possible.

read this Any way of getting a MOT in spain, or equivalent. it seems a MOT/ITV in Algeciras is possible on a UK plate. Can anyone confirm any truth in this?

In the above link, only an opinion but might be true:

I have friends who have had their UK plated car ITV'd.

Not all ITV stations can issue to UK plates, but some can. It is meant to cover you for your journey back to UK, although not to drive around on for months on end. Ask around at your local ITV stations. The one's I know that do it are based in Marbella and Algeciras so I don't think they will be any use to you.

Good luck with that; it sounds interesting and there could be a lot of people interested in the answer.
No, I didn't have a specific route in mind; I was just playing with the underline button to emphasise that you have to ride very carefully if you happen to not have insurance cover that is valid at that time.
Funnily enough, I have just been reading this thread:- http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...nsurance-59644
which talks about riding in Europe without minimum insurance cover; as often happens with threads, there is no outcome, no end state, no closing the loop of "what happened".

**milesmcewing** · #**170** 25 Mar 2012

Hello All;

I just wanted to say that I used Doug Wothke's services to get my insurance for the UK.

Great!!

Cheap, reliable, passed the checkpoints, borders and was in the mailbox when he said it would be.

I highly recommend getting the insurance through Doug and Polly. You can reach them here :motocampbg@yahoo.com

Thanks!

Miles and Tracey
www.smilesandmiles.com

**rtwdoug** · #**171** 30 Mar 2012

Hey Miles
I'm glad it all went good for you, & everything worked with the customs, altho as I have used the same insurance the past 2 summers, I never had a problem (or I would not recommend it to others)

I hope your trip went well!

as an addition, as I have had several questions about this, if you are coming overland from turkey into bulgaria, you can buy the green card at the border.
Buy it on the BG side, as its much cheaper than the TR side. once you pass thru the customs, the office is in a building to the left. If you dont see it, just ask the guard.

Doug

**Walkabout** · #**172** 3 Apr 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by CourtFisher

Yes, a tad ironic, but perhaps not, given the original poster back in 2008, was--in titling this thread--referring specifically to non-EU reg/ plated bikes.

.................. sometimes difficult to understand & keep separate the different rules and practices of EU-mainland insurers covering non-EU vehicles vs. UK insurers covering UK vehicles.

I guess that was inevitable given those people who bring a bike into the UK thereby becoming involved with the UK insurance business.
There have been some useful posts in this thread about the same subject:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...nsurance-59644
In there, two UK insurers have been named as recently providing insurance cover for those who don't have a UK driving licence viz esure.com (an online ins company, and only online = they won't give you a telephone number) and "Footman James".

**macfisto** · #**173** 16 Apr 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkabout

Nice summary Michael that is often not known to those who take out insurance just once a year, or thereabouts, and forget about it thereafter.

Good luck with that; it sounds interesting and there could be a lot of people interested in the answer.

.....there is no outcome, no end state, no closing the loop of "what happened".

It's confirmed, as a new spanish connection of mine made the call today, Ceuta ITV had no clue about doing uk reg bikes but algeciras ITV and malaga said yes they have done it before, but, it's not official and that it does help in most cases when showed to the spanish police.

booking made

anyone that might need to make the call in future:

algeciras ITV +34 956673850
malaga ITV +34 902575757
ceuta ITV +34 956507374

**roamingyak** · #**174** 2 May 2012

12 pages!!!

Can somebody kindly start a new thread (with no comments) with the current contact details of what this thread was originally about, getting green card insurance from the cheapest source - it would save us all wading through 12 pages trying to make sure we have the latest contact details...

Thanks ;-)

**TurboCharger** · #**175** 2 May 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by roamingyak.org

12 pages!!!

Can somebody kindly start a new thread (with no comments) with the current contact details of what this thread was originally about, getting green card insurance from the cheapest source - it would save us all wading through 12 pages trying to make sure we have the latest contact details...

Thanks ;-)

Better than that, it should be a sticky. Mods, please stand up

**chris** · #**176** 2 May 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by roamingyak.org

12 pages!!!

Can somebody kindly start a new thread (with no comments) with the current contact details of what this thread was originally about, getting green card insurance from the cheapest source - it would save us all wading through 12 pages trying to make sure we have the latest contact details...

Thanks ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboCharger

Better than that, it should be a sticky. Mods, please stand up

This current thread is a sticky. If you want to create a new thread, please do. I'll sticky it for you.

For a topic like this, Wiki software would be a better way to keep everything together. Why don't you ask Grant for it?

A mod's job, IMHO, is not to generate content in the format others would like.

The users generate the content, the mods "police" it.

Since the known plonkers have left the building, life is easy as a member of the thin blue line (for me at least): The only thing to do is delete spammers and focus on researching my own trips, give tips to others (aka generate content) and read for pleasure (admittedly, I don't usally read this particular thread "for pleasure"....).

C

**IronArse** · #**177** 21 May 2012

Hey folks, just wondering....
My bike is not from outside the EU, I have an Irish bike, but my Irish insurance is running out in a few weeks (they only cover for 93 days outside of the country, then you have to return or cancel). All this talk of a European Green Card for non-EU bikes, but do I get the same insurance for an EU bike?
Need insurance to get me through another few months around Europe, and Morocco too if anyone covers both, anyone have any recommendations??
Beers for the winner with the best answer......

**panhandle1300** · #**178** 20 Jun 2012

IronArse - Morocco insurance can be bought after going through the border, EBike wouldn't cover us outside of Spain. We crossed Algeciras - Ceueta (2009), can't remember details right now but the cops gave us directions to the insurers office. Think we paid about 30 Euros for a months cover.

I've got Hants police onto this :-) through an ex traffic cop mate of mine -

"Can I buy motor insurance for the bike from another EU country that will cover me in the UK and Europe? Scouring the internet is getting conflicting results.

This from the DVLA website -

Any vehicle used in this country for more than six months in any 12 has to be registered and licensed here in the normal way with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). In addition, where the keeper of the vehicle becomes resident in this country, the vehicle must immediately be registered and licensed here. Once a vehicle has been registered in this country its use must be covered by a motor insurance policy issued by a motor insurer authorised in the UK. - Motor insurance for visiting and imported vehicles : Directgov - Motoring

This from the European Commission website -

Vehicles should be registered in the country of residence of the policy holder and/or vehicle owner. Provided their registration is in order, they may be insured by an insurer established in the country of registration or in any other EU country. Insurers providing cross-border insurance services must fulfil certain formalities under the EU insurance rules. They must also be willing to offer a contract. - Motor insurance - European Commission

This from the Motor Insurers Bureau, Information for Police website -

http://www.mib.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/9...rPolicev81.pdf

I'll post back up when/if I get a suitable answer.

**spellytheman** · #**179** 23 Jul 2012

Headed off recently with 2 UK reg bikes to cross Bosnia and Serbia - did not bother with green card and no real issues. Leaving Croatia to Bosnia was asked for a green card but guy on border happy to issue insurance for 40 euros / bike. Going from Bosnia to Serbia nobody asked for anything so no problems.

Trip was June 2012 and all pretty good except for heatwave of 35-40 degrees all the time. Bosnia was a great country to bike in !

Paul.

**panhandle1300** · #**180** 24 Jul 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandle1300

IronArse - Morocco insurance can be bought after going through the border, EBike wouldn't cover us outside of Spain. We crossed Algeciras - Ceueta (2009), can't remember details right now but the cops gave us directions to the insurers office. Think we paid about 30 Euros for a months cover.

I've got Hants police onto this :-) through an ex traffic cop mate of mine -

"Can I buy motor insurance for the bike from another EU country that will cover me in the UK and Europe? Scouring the internet is getting conflicting results.

This from the DVLA website -

Any vehicle used in this country for more than six months in any 12 has to be registered and licensed here in the normal way with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). In addition, where the keeper of the vehicle becomes resident in this country, the vehicle must immediately be registered and licensed here. Once a vehicle has been registered in this country its use must be covered by a motor insurance policy issued by a motor insurer authorised in the UK. - Motor insurance for visiting and imported vehicles : Directgov - Motoring

This from the European Commission website -

Vehicles should be registered in the country of residence of the policy holder and/or vehicle owner. Provided their registration is in order, they may be insured by an insurer established in the country of registration or in any other EU country. Insurers providing cross-border insurance services must fulfil certain formalities under the EU insurance rules. They must also be willing to offer a contract. - Motor insurance - European Commission

This from the Motor Insurers Bureau, Information for Police website -

http://www.mib.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/9...rPolicev81.pdf

I'll post back up when/if I get a suitable answer.

Reply from the EC

Quote:

Thank you for your e-mail of 22 June 2012. You would like to know as to whether you can purchase a motor insurance policy issued by an insurer in a Member State other than the United Kingdom.
I can confirm that you can indeed buy a motor insurance policy issued by an insurer in a Member State other than the United Kingdom, as long as the insurer respects certain conditions, as explained below. The insurer must also be willing to offer a contract.
Insurance policies and green cards emanating from other Member States are recognised by the British authorities, provided that the vehicle complies with the registration requirements based upon the application of the normal residence test under Directive 83/182/EEC. Under that Directive vehicles which are circulating temporarily within or between Member States can be used without the need to re-register. However, these provisions limit visits to six months in any 12-month period. After this time, or sooner if the owner changes normal residence to the UK, he or she must comply with the registration and licensing requirements of the new home country.
Where a vehicle is required to be registered within the UK and that vehicle is used on the roads or in a public place, it must be covered by a valid insurance policy which is issued by an insurer which is a member of the Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB) and is authorised to offer insurance policies in the UK. An authorised insurer for these purposes includes both insurers in the UK which have a domestic authorisation and insurers in the
European Economic Area which are exercising their rights under the EU insurance directives to offer insurance policies in the UK. The British law thus appears in conformity with the relevant EU legislation in this respect.
We advise EU residents looking to take out motor insurance to compare offers from different insurers in order to find the best deal in terms of premiums and conditions.
Their best aid in comparing deals is the Internet. You can find more information about motor insurers operating in the United Kingdom at The FSA Register.

Commission européenne/Europese Commissie, 1049 Bruxelles/Brussel, BELGIQUE/BELGIË - Tel. +32 22991111
Office: SPA 2 02/45 - Tel. direct line +32 229-+32 2 299 13 69
The EU Single Market - European Commission
eelke.postema@ec.europa.eu

So, even though it is possible to get cheaper insurance within the EU the reality is there are so many hurdles in the way it isn't worth it. Trying to find a list of Insurers operating outside of the UK via the FSA Register is nigh on impossible ... I gave up in the end and bought from the UK.

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