Thanks to Grant and Susan and the team, Horizons Unlimited has become the best online resource for two-wheeled travel - most helpful, most informative, most relevant. 'Thread on the HUBB' has even entered the conversational lexicon of adventure motorcycling. 'How do you know that?' Thread on the HUBB. 'Where did you meet them?' Thread on the HUBB. Sociable, too - I've met and made life-long friends here.

So - helpful, relevant, social. But I feel it's missing something. People come here, use the site as a resource to answer the questions that really can't be answered anywhere else, but have a tendency to post elsewhere when it comes to the good stuff - the actual ride reports. It feels like we do all hard work, but someone else gets the benefits. We eat our greens and another site gets the ice cream pudding. And that doesn't seem right.

So Grant - any chance of setting up a ride reports section? I know we have the travellers' tales, but boy, are they awkward to navigate. I never got the hang of the art of reading backwards and upside-down, and I know that a lot of others also struggle with their layout. Is there a technical issue or financial constraint that prevents us from running ride reports in the easy on the eye style of advrider? Is it simply money and bandwith?

Suerte, Dan Walsh

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Que el cielo exista, aunque mi lugar sea el infierno...

Thanks for the nice comments Dan, much appreciated!

And good and interesting point on ride reports.

As for the big question:

Partly money and bandwidth, but mostly no one ever told me they didn't like the blogs!

Bandwidth is getting up there, we will be paying significantly more in about 6 months than we are now (we're pushing 200gb a month now, and more than that will co$t.) The other guys have their own in house server and a big organization subsidizing the bills, with no bandwidth restrictions/cost that matters.

We could do ride reports in the HUBB, but I've never liked what it does/looks like, so the plan is to have better blogging software, and make it easier for anyone to have an instant blog, to use as a ride report. I take note of the ordering comment

Tip on that - just go to the menu on the right, and click archives for a full index. Yes it's in reverse order, as that is the blog "standard" - for better or worse. You're supposed to read every day, and therefore want to read the "latest" now. Perhaps it should be reversed top chronological for Travellers Stories - comments?

So I guess the question now is, should we just do ride reports in a Forum, or wait for the trick blog software.

NOTE:

The plan in progress, and coming, albeit far slower than I'd like, is to have:

1. Everyone gets a personal page to do with as they like - within reason of course!
2. Blogs - available to all, more sophisticated full blogging, perfect for trip reports.

Perhaps the blogs are too much for short ride reports? Do you WANT to post short ride reports - or only long ones? Where's the line? What do YOU guys want / expect? Do you want to be able to just post a thread in a Ride Reports forum? Should there be restrictions?

Let me know, as you know I always listen and do what I can - but I need to know what's wanted. I have my own big list of wants, and I hope you'll like it all, but you need to tell me too.

Grant

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

I have wondered about this topic in the past and thanks to Dan for raising it therefore - I believe that a very important factor in this discussion is the use of photos. Everyone has a digital camera nowadays and the best of the short ride reports include plenty of these; in turn, such threads tend to be very popular - as a random sample, the 5th post here goes to a thread with about 200 posts at present:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-4-weeks-31201
(4 weeks - is that long or short?)

As for short Vs long; let the punters decide - if, as Dan suggests, there is a section called ride reports (there could be some sort of advice in the "notes" about "short" if you really want it), then those who post can stick stuff in there or start a "full-on" blog.
I guess "ride reports" should be based on regions of the world - now where did I get that idea??!

Personally, I can live with reading upside down, right to left or whatever, but such reports must have pics included.

"That other site" is good in some respects, particularly for the photographic content, but it is not as truly global as this one IMO and it does contain some material which is frankly childish.

Finally, a few months ago I recall something from Grant along the lines that this site is not only for RTW riders but long-distance riding; are you content with going down this futher road?

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Dave

thanks for the excellent comments!

taking it all on board...

As for the "long distance riders" - depends on your definition - mine is someone not going around the world - but "just" a continent, which is much more common and doable for the average person.

If your definition of "long distance riding" is Iron Butt stuff - while I'm not personally interested, and in fact think it's dangerous and not to be encouraged, if people want to talk about it, that's ok, no arguments from me.

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

I don't like the upside down reading on the blogs so if you could change that, that would be great and I agree that pictures makes the reading much more interesting.
A personal page for everyone would be great.
If I had a personal homepage, I could use it for some highlights of my trips and add a link to my own website with trip reports. When can I get it............

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Jan Krijtenburg

My bikes are a Honda GoldWing GL1200 and a Harley-Davidson FXD Dyna Super Glide

My personal homepage with trip reports: https://www.krijtenburg.nl/
YouTube channel (that I do together with one of my sons): motormobilist.nl

Ride Reports allow for much greater interaction.
I enjoy the Blogs too, and view them as travelers' trip logs.

Vanilla or chocolate? Or a mix...

I certainly did not have in mind the Iron Butt approach when referring to long distance riding. The definitions, or lack of, don't really matter.
I think that the question comes down to those who want to write up some aspect of a ride after they have returned from such (a short trip?) and those who want to use a blog while on the road.
The former would benefit greatly from a clearly defined place for them to be and greater structure in filing them; based on continent, country, type of trip perhaps (view ruins/scenery, charity ride, whatever). These can be cross-referenced to recommendations for accommodation, repair shops etc as appropriate. This should end up as a "database" of trips that will provide improved knowledge about areas for riding; so often the same questions arise over and over again about, for instance, the UK. The longer distance riders and RTWs can look at these to get ideas of what to do when in a particular area.

There you go, Merry Christmas!

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Dave

Here's a great example of a short trip report (all of 3 weeks); I can't imagine anyone would want to search out internet cafs to keep a blog along the way - I'm just grateful that he found the time to write about it after getting home:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...an-syria-32109

(No pics however!)

Of course, this can stay where it is, in the Middle East forum, or it could............

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Dave

I'm not a fan of reverse order blogs either ... in fact .... I hardly ever read them.

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Just to clarify the copyright situation on the site to respond to mollydog:

"Those writing books or making movies may not like the idea that all their precious words/ pics are now public domain and can be copied and re-used .... or that technically (I think) Grant OWNS the material (correct me here Grant) once it's posted on HIS website, and I believe he can reproduce/sell as he sees fit. Not sure on legalities here."

This is a common misconception - Posting something on the web does NOT affect the author's copyright in any way, and individuals can't just reuse stuff on the web without respecting copyright. Just because it's posted on the web does NOT make it Public Domain - the copyright is still the authors, and may NOT be reproduced without permission of the author! The only small exception is "Fair use;" when a magazine / reporter / author of any kind excerpts a paragraph or two from an original copyrighted work (basically everything written) to use in for instance a review of a book.

You may NEVER copy text from another website or any source anywhere and post it without permission from the author.

You may also NEVER copy a photo from another website or any source anywhere and post it without permission from the author.

If you look at the bottom of every page on the site (yeah, sometimes that's a looonnnggg way down ;-), you'll find this line:

"All text and photographs are Copyright © Grant and Susan Johnson, 1987- 2008, or their respective authors. All Rights Reserved."

When you sign up for the HUBB or to post info anywhere on the site, including blogs, you agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by the HUBB.

Just to be clear - HU doesn't OWN the contents of HUBB posts or blogs, but we do excerpt from the HUBB, from blogs, from e-mail and from other sites (with permission) for the e-zine, for example. These are always attributed to the original author and a link to their blog provided, and comes under Fair Use rules, and / or we have full permission.

Yes, we're fussy about Copyright, and hope you will be too.

Cheers
Grant and Susan

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Susan Johnson

Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Here's my take on whether HUBB should include ride reports. In a word, don't!

There are lots of other sites that provide folks with place to put their ride reports and photos - AusTouring, ADVRider, KLR650Net etc.

The HUBB seems to be focused more on the actual stuff of getting out there and back or not - gear (Matt's posts), carnet's (the never ending mystery), transportation (getting a bike to float or soar), and of course the 8th 9th 10th and so on wonder of the world - border crossings, among many others, which I think brings a unique and important quality to the HUBB.

And, the current Traveller's Stories section provides enough 'Ride Report' content and I like the 'newest on top' approach. (I have a quick look everyone once and awhle to see what Derek Fairless is up to and I don't have to scroll down the entire blog to see it anything's new (Derek - where are you in the new 3CV?)

Seems to me that rather than having the HUBB host more photos etc. it would be better if anyone who wants to post a ride report to do it on another site and include a simple link to it from an HU post.

If there was a desire to enhance this, you could simply include a new section (Ride Reports?) in the HUBB - that would allow a Title and one line for a link but screen out any posts with photos (don't know if this is actually possible, but...)

From my experience it seems that most folks who read the HUBB also use other forums and would not be significantly impacted by using another site for posting photos and yarns.
Stephen

Hi Stephen,

thanks for the thoughtful reply! I appreciate your comments, and they certainly made me stop and think.

So here's my take as a site owner on it:

Sure, there are other sites and a user can certainly post their travel story on them, and the HUBB is awesome for the real nitty-gritty how to stuff, and we could just link to them.

But - and here's the important but - every time someone reads one of THOSE sites ride report, they're not on HU reading it - and that means less traffic for HU, which impacts the bottom line - I need the traffic to be able to charge reasonable rates for advertising so that I can keep the number of ads to a minimum, but still pay the bills and eat. Remember HU is all I do - unlike some sites which are either small and part time hobbies of the owner, or traffic drivers for other enterprises.

Also as has been noted, why NOT have the "fun stuff" here? I'd like a one stop shop - we've been at it for 11 years now, and while we do have a one-stop shop, there is ALSO lots of great entertainment and pictures - which people love - out on the web on other sites - so why not get some of that entertainment here too? Nothing saying we can't do both - the forums are well separated so it shouldn't impact on the "important" stuff.

Re the "ordering" of posts in blogs versus the forums - I agree with you that the "newest" at the top is great if you're following someone, but it sucks if you've just discovered them and want to read the whole story! We have had MANY requests to do the blog posts in ascending - newest at the bottom - order.

Also, I don't know why, not as many people as I expected use the HU Blogs to post their ride reports - perhaps it's too hard - the forums are EASY to post a ride story.

Lots of people won't ever make a really big trip, or only one, so for them often a weekend ride is as good as it gets - so ok, since MOST of us can't do a big trip forever, and we eventually have to come home and do "normal" stuff - let's trade info on where the good rides are and share a little of THAT fun on HU. We all go for weekend rides or week long rides as part of normal life. I'm planning a couple of weeks in Colorado and area off-road next summer myself.

And finally, due to all the feedback, you'll see that there IS now a new "Ride Tales, Trip Reports and Stories" forum in the HUBB, for better or worse. And we will continue to have the "Travel Stories" blogs as well, for the serious big trips. They are now looked directly to from within the HUBB structure too, so should be easier to find - it's amazing how many people don't even SEE the left hand menu.

So I hope everyone will start posting more travel stories!

thanks for the feedback everyone! As usual, we listen and try to make it the best we can for all.

Grant and Susan

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Ride reports vs blogs ...

As I see it .. a ride report is done after the event .. a blog is done during the even .. part way through as it were .. so the 'reverse order' problem ..

........... umm Me?

I offer help (mostly I hope) on the HUBB forums .. I see that as the place to get quick advice when your on the road .. so something that is quick to download (no photos etc) is best. So I do read the bits where I might have something to contribute there.

I'd rather see the 'chatty' side of the HUBB in another area .. with ride reports if that happens? Keep one area for the 'essential' quick problem? No I don't know how to cut the line between the two - they will overlap form time to time, such is life.

I read the eZine .. and follow some peoples bolgs from time to time. I see them as less 'quick help' more as tracking people you have meet, or getting 'on the road' information about places you might be thinking of going.. so they can be photo rich as download speed is not too much of an issue

The hard bit is organising the information .. there is a vast wealth of that here .. Maybe personal pages .. would help - say your past experiences/knowledge that could be a source of info for others and something about future plans/dreams.. ? Could be seachable .. with some dating of the info too? Links to any blogs/reports and hubb postings .. ? Don't know ..

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On Copyright... as usuall the laws change from country to country ..

Basicly my view is - I will quote someone without permission .. upto around 10% ... but only to draw attention to what they said .. and I hope I give some reference to them! I'd not reproduce a photo or map. You can link to it and then if people want to look they can ..
An old boss of mine wrote a book - very narrow specialist field. It was translated into chineses and the chinese publishers want him to write a foreword, he contacted the original punblishers and they said something along the lines of "Congratulations, you are the first of our writers to be translated into chinese, of course you realise that they have no agreement with you or us and you'll probably recieve no royalties". He choose not to write a foreword...

If you choose to take a copy of something for later reading .. I think that is ok. Particularly if you own an original - just taking precaution not to damage it .. or loose on your travels. The issue is taking a copy and not makeing a contribution to the production of the information.. Up to your value judgements really.

Enough...

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Regards Frank Warner
motorcycles BMW R80 G/S 1981, BMW K11LT 1993, BMW K75 G/S