Thanks Danielsprague, Lisa Thomas, Kebabtomten and Pecha 72 for using kind words for Pakistan and its people.

@Chicadiabla
Police escorts dont accompany you all the time. You can get rid of them after you get out of the Afghan border area near Quetta.

KKH is an all weather road and in my younger days I used to visit it in Dec/Jan on bike. The extreme dry cold along with solitude always was attractive to me. Now I still go there in winters but use my car instead. The border with China closes early January and opens early May. The area is high altitude cold desert therefore it has very low precipitation and not much snowfall either. Interestingly many mountaineers prefer to climb in winters due to cold which stabilises snow reducing chances of deadly avalanches. Despite all this it is much more attractive in summers.

@McGiggle
Hi! Nice to hear from you. My family and members of the PBC are doing fine and sending their regards to you and Caf. I hope Caf's plaster has been removed and she has totally recovered riding her BMW again.
Just returned from the PBC trip to the coastal highway down south. Lots of sun, clear unspoilt beaches, temp in twenties and king prawns. It was just fantastic. Wish you could join. You can see the pics at pakwheels.com.
Looking forward to seeing you and Caf on your next visit to Pakistan.

Yes Pakistan is beautiful.... but it is not absolutly safe!!! nor is it all media frenzy!! I rode solo through the country (India to Iran) in July and had some very scary situations to deal with, both by police and locals. Lets keep it real.... it is doable but you cannot under estimate security issues. Yes you can have problems in other countries as well but to suggest the situation in Pakistan is normal is crap! if not dangerous.

Rossmac wrote
Yes Pakistan is beautiful.... but it is not absolutly safe!!! nor is it all media frenzy!! I rode solo through the country (India to Iran) in July and had some very scary situations to deal with, both by police and locals. Lets keep it real.... it is doable but you cannot under estimate security issues. Yes you can have problems in other countries as well but to suggest the situation in Pakistan is normal is crap! if not dangerous.

You are certainly giving your honest opinion Ross as you percieve it. The threat situations you faced here might have been incorrectly percieved as such due to the extensive conditioning you were exposed to by the media. Let me quote a saying "Your eyes dont see what your mind does'nt know, and vice versa"

You can visit the website of Pakistan Bikers club and Pakwheels.com to see how regularly the Pakistani families travel accross the country and the ratio of law and order problems. I am sure it is comparable if not better than most.

No, it's not absolutely safe, but where is??

What exactly were your very scary situations?

Obviously, we each have a different percption of scary...I'm interested to know what you experienced.

I was very close to a bomb in Peshawar, and close to bombs in Islamabad and Kohat, but I never feared that I was being deliberately targeted...

Daniel

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You are probably right, the bomb attack I experienced in Quetta and the AK47 shoved in my face was surely "extensive conditioning I was exposed to by the media"!!!!

So what are you saying.... so long as you are not "deliberately" targeted it is safe?
All I'm trying to get across is that the situation in Pakistan is not "normal" and by all means go there BUT you need to take heed of the unrest.
For people to just say that its a beautiful country and what lovely people they are (it is and they are) doesn't make for good/smart trip planning.
But hey thats only my opinion....

I feel sorry for the unfortunate episodes you had to go through in Pakistan. I have lived 44 years in Pakistan and 6 in the US, but never experienced an AK47 directed at me. Let me add further that I dont know anyone who went through such an experience.
The only comment I can make in business terminology is that maybe your sample size was too small. I have also heard horrendous stories about people travelling in Europe and US although never experienced any.

If you like mountains, then the north of Pakistan is in my opinion more beautiful than Nepakl or Himachal, and equally stunning when compared to Ladakh, albeit in a different way.


Hi
Could you possibly expand upon this quote if you've the time, please?
Would really like to travel the road Islamabad - Gilgit and around the KKH.
Any impressions, thoughts & experience greatly appreciated. Cheers

So what are you saying.... so long as you are not "deliberately" targeted it is safe?

No, not quite, but there is some comfort in knowing you're not in any more danger than all the other 165,000,000 people there...

Pakistan isn't safe, and I don't say that, what I mean is that the risk, as I perceive it, is still less than the danger of riding a motorbike anywhere in Asia. For example, 17,000 people each year die on the roads in Iran... which is far more than are killed by terrorism in any country, and probably all countries put together... but people still ask if it's safe to ride through Iran / Pakistan for reasons of terrorism. Forget the Taliban and see how people drive here!

***

Hi
Could you possibly expand upon this quote if you've the time, please?
Would really like to travel the road Islamabad - Gilgit and around the KKH.
Any impressions, thoughts & experience greatly appreciated. Cheers

The truly beautiful parts are above Gilgit, trekking around Passu for instance, where, in one day you can see scenery which takes at least 10 days to reach in Nepal. Baltistan is gorgeous, particularly after Skardu on the road to Khapalu, Shigar and the Hushe Valley. The Shimshal and Chapursan Valleys are also interesting, and the different cultures of the different valleys are fascinating. A ride up to the Khunjerab Pass is also awesome.

Enjoy!

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[quote=danielsprague;274087]So what are you saying.... so long as you are not "deliberately" targeted it is safe?

No, not quite, but there is some comfort in knowing you're not in any more danger than all the other 165,000,000 people there...

Pakistan isn't safe, and I don't say that, what I mean is that the risk, as I perceive it, is still less than the danger of riding a motorbike anywhere in Asia. For example, 17,000 people each year die on the roads in Iran... which is far more than are killed by terrorism in any country, and probably all countries put together... but people still ask if it's safe to ride through Iran / Pakistan for reasons of terrorism. Forget the Taliban and see how people drive here!

***
Hi,
This is going to be my last word on this subject......
I disagree with your statement that you are not in any more danger than the 165,000,000 people there. Everyone knows that riding a motorcycle can be risky even at home, thats not the point, I am willing to take that risk. I was targeted purely because I was a westerner!!! For example... I was constantly asked if I was German... WHY? (even though I wasn't aware of it at the time) a German man had recently stabbed to death a muslim woman in a german courtroom (google it). I was subjected to harassment and hostility on several other occasions also, once, solely because I have a shaved head and no beard. That situation very nearly got out of control, as a crowd gathered, until I was rescued by a police man. I don't think that normally happens to the local population.
Just to set the record straight... I enjoyed most of my time in Pakistan, I repeat though, people should be aware that the situation in the country is not "normal". Most people will find they will get a police escort,at some stage, depending on where you are going. Why is that do you think????
Its not media hype or my perception as some have suggested.

It's definitely not media hype, the facts are there, Pakistan can be dangerous. But in all my years of Pakistan travel, I've never heard of any experiences like yours. I'm sorry to hear about them. I had a shaved head and a rather poor beard, but dressed locally, was often mistaken for a Pashtun, and enjoyed places like Quetta, Peshawar, Baluchistan and Zhob immensely.

People need to ask themselves whether it's too dangerous for them, everyone has their own level of comfort.

Daniel

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There you go, you finally have it, thats what I said in the beginning....
I notice a reluctance for people to actually say anything remotely negative about a place for fear of offending.... People need facts when planning, not PC "I don't want to offend anyone" crap.

Absolute nonsense. On the whole India is crap, don't go

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Well said. It all goes tits up once you cross the Wagah border.

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