Damn Maria- I think ye bought a lemon!!! See you in Spain- where the pain is mainly on the train! Malaga should be fun- tapas and vino are on me! H.

__________________
"And I think to myself, what a wonderful world..." L.B. Armstrong. www.davesgreatescape.net
http://www.facebook.com/inbox/readme...e&id=661274218

Yep, I call it a "dog" but same thing! I came to the same conclusion some time ago!

So the ittle bugger is back for repairs, this time no choice, took it to BMW ,as I suspect yet more problems with the software, even if they deny it!

Unfortunately I won't make it to Malaga this year. Just started a new job in London and can't take time off just now.

Enjoy Malaga!

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Maria

www.franglais-riders.com

Well said MadmountainMan. You've been providing one of the best view in terms of sincerity and open mindness in this thread by far.

But I don't see "BMW marketing twisting the common conception" really a problem around HUBB or other forums that experienced travellers visit. The realistic picture made of dozens of travel stories in HUBB sections already tells us how many alternatives there are. People go RTW with Harley-Davidsons, Enfields, Ducatis and other. Wise people will always make up their own mind IMHO. They don't listen the praises from a BMW-fans like myself or BMW-bashes from guys like Mollydog. Well they maybe do it to some level but certainly don't base their final decisions and sums on it. The only "risk group" in this field probably are the newbies.

So what I find unfair is when people get falsely informed by people like Mollydog.

We do have freedom of speech. But I find it disturbing when someone spreads dominantly negatives about something, and especially when it's built up with false facts and ill-minded orientation only by continuously bashing and ignoring what others say.


KTM or KTM riders, enemies? Noupe! KTM, IMHO, is of the best focused-bike makers currently around. Wouldn't mind owning a 250-450cc enduro unit in the future for practicing in the weekends.

PS: Canada sounds like a perfect playground to me - if all goes well I'll be there next summer. Should I bring my heated vest with me?

Cheers, Margus

The mollydog thesis is that bmw has a lot more warranty claims & lemon buy backs (and thus severe quality problems) than other brands.

Please prove first that bmw has in proportion to sales not significantly more warranty claims & lemon buy backs than honda, for instance.

If you have done that, you can tell that someone is making false statements.

GHAAA! GHAAA! GHAAA! That's me screaming AND pulling my hair! If you can picture!

Well the beemer (2004 model!) has gone into a complete meltdown. According the BMW: The wiring harness is burned near the control unit.
The estimate to repair it is £1100 IF they can save the control unit. If
not it is another £600.

GAAHHH ! GAAHHH ! GAAAHHH ! (more hair pulling here I'm afraid! )


Since we came back from South America, last May, it is the 4th time the bike is down the workshop (for variou sissues!) . It has spend more time sitting in workshops than in my front garden!
This time I had to bite the bullet and take it to BMW to get it plugged to that computer of theirs!

now, who was asking if a BMW F650GS is a good bike for travelling?

GAAHHH ! GAAHHH ! GAAAHHH ! etc....

Meanwhile, teh husband's Dakar has NOTHING! GAAHHH etc.....

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Maria

www.franglais-riders.com

It's always easier to bash than to defend.

But if I ever was to make a thesis or serious claims on something I'd had it backuped with real independently surveyed data first. I wouldn't schizophrenically start simply bashing the brand to satisfy my hatred instincts or publically expose my ill-will towards one brand or the riders who ride that particular brand of bikes, especially if I haven't owned one myself. I'd instead look for realistic proof first, a cornerstone to base my facts on. And those are not forums or 'village gossips', those must be surveys carried out by unbiased statistics institutions in the case of "claims" covered in this thread.

Suzuki didn't buy back my "lemon" bike with completely burnt electrics, so they must have lot of warranty issues while not buying back bikes or it's my fault I bought Japansese bike and I was just unlucky then? So you think this kind of interpretation of "reliability data" provides us a perfect picture how reliable Suzukis really are?

On another forum (about a different subject entirely), one poster's signature line is "The plural of anecdote is not data." This is worth remembering in such discussions.

OTOH, I believe that it is quite possible to gather a reliable sense of the relative merits and drawbacks of a piece of gear by paying close attention to what is said about it by users. I've been doing this my whole life, and I expect I'll continue. I do try to ignore the shrill voices and extravagant claims, since I have no way of evaluating them.

I also try to bear in mind that internet forums in particular seem to attract certain sorts of opinions, and that these opinions tend to polarize over time. It always seems to me very wise to ignore the outliers and look for the consensed middle ground.

This discussion has been informative, but I'd still be interested in more data and fewer anecdotes, if such actually exists.

On my way to Europe in a few hours, where I will reunite with my KLR, head north and resume touring in (I assume) cold rain, wind and early hints of winter.

enjoy,

Mark

This thread won't die will it? We all have preferences of bike; no doubt we have all had good and bad experiences with bikes of whatever make. If you are happy with what you ride, great! If not, change it. As somebody has already pointed out: there is no perfect bike, only what is right for YOU. So please stop this arguing over what, in the grand scheme of things, is pretty insignificant and go and enjoy your bikes (whatever you happen to ride).

Hey Margus,

Couple of quick comments, you are right, the experienced guys are very knowledgeable and won't be swayed by pure marketing. I could be biased, but I tend to think of the audience that really benefits from these on-line discussions are the guys embarking on their first journey. I know I read these various "which bike" posts in great details when first agonizing over which bike and got to see some widely divergent views that I may not have otherwise. Much of the reason that I try to chime in when I see it come up again is that I have gotten so much from this site and the collective wisdom of it's users that I really do feel that if I can give anything back to the community, I am happy to do so. Thanks for sharing your experience and views.

In regards to my KTM bashing, I guess my poor humour doesn't translate well to the written word but in reality I am just kidding. We rode with a few KTM'ers in Africa and the bikes were great and the riders awesome guys. It really is just some prodding humour aimerd mostly at them, after a short while you become very blind to brand of motorcycle and only see fellow travellers.

If you do make it over to Canada, please let us know when to expect you. You are a motorcyclist and are therefore always welcome as a fellow biker, you are a world traveller and are therefore always welcome as a fellow traveller, and you are a member of HU and are therefore always welcome as a friend.

Peace out

I did, earlier in this thread. R1100 models showed in an independent survey (riders having done >20k Km on them were allowed to participate) showed a 25% GEARBOX BREAKDOWN.

That was around 8 years ago, that percentage has gone way up by now.

The same questionnaire, filled in for the Pan European ST1100, didn't come up with even one gearbox breakdown, nor were there any drive line failures. As you know, the ST1100 gearbox & drive line are very comparable to the faulty bmw (getrag) parts.

Looking at the newer bmw 1200GS model, the pictures becomes even worse. The percentage motorbikes with one or more of the following warranty claims is terrifying:
- rear wheels coming loose,
- leaking drive lines,
- leaking gearboxes,
- exhaust valves breaking off
-"ringantenne" / EWS breakdown

check out!
----------------------------------------

[QUOTE]AliBaba posted: [check out! /QUOTE]

spot the difference.

HERE HERE!!!

__________________
2000 Africa Twin
http://two-up-ona-twin.blogspot.com

Apples or oranges?

Are STs being ridden on dirt, gravel roads or offroad?

Whatever your data is, you can't compare bikes with different focus or purpose. Goldwing doesn't compare with Varadero, like XR650R does not compare to CBR600.

By purpose, one sees smooth tarmac miles only, the other may get constantly abused by potholes, gravel, corrugations and dirt. Which do you think lasts longer mileage- or age wise?

And your data source is...? Your own "questionary"?

You are absolutely right that if the bike suites your needs and you are happy with it, you need not justify yourself if you do not want to.

However, to be fair, this was posted in the "Which Bike" sub-forum that, by definition, is for people who want to know what bike you prefer, or which is best for them.... The poster had two specific models in mind: the discussion need really not have gone beyond those two models but it did...

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Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)