firstly your line does not run through the bmw's front axle. Even so it is as i said in my first post
"Are you sure about this, because my 1985 boxer twin has the centreline of the crankshaft above the wheel axles.. this was not true for my old triumph tiger cub, speed twin or trophy. It is also not true of current Enfields. having the majority of the crank below the axles makes a bike non top heavy, plus most of the bikes frame is above the engine.. It certainly feels top heavy...

have you much experience with these older bikes which to me are the 'norm', as i grew up with them and learned on them."

It is no use showing another bike with a wetsump saying it is as bad as the bmws for centre of gravity.. My comment was that the older bikes had a much lower centre of gravity, and the developement has been retrograde... with regard to the new 1200 bmw being lighter, yes it is lighter than its predecessors, because of the impracticalities of the quarter tonne+ previous bikes... and why do you need 1200cc for offroad use??? I included the 1150r because it is a road bike as are all the sample pictures given. anyway, I the 1200 is way out of my price range,, dont get me wrong i am not slating bmw's per se, but for offroad use they would never be my choice, unless teh wartime model with power driven side car.

I hate to belabor this point, but honestly, BMW's reliability is no secret to anyone in the industry....even personal friends who work in BMW dealerships.
Its just fact.



(but Margus is right about how picky BMW owners are.....but the bottom
line is....they break down)

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

This entire thread is BS
------------

It was typed earlier, in different ways: Know your bike......and take care of it.

Or subscribe to a tour.

Gauging the depth you wish to experience is a personal choice - sometimes led by common sense.

Oh gosh , it's not April the first already is it ?

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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...mw-r100gs-7766

ChrisB

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Brighty's website: TheBrightStuffDotCom

CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

Oh this is just tooooo much fun to leave alone!
I have had about 50 overland travelers stay with me over the last 6 years (by my address book) of which my guess is about 1/3 rode boxers. None of these boxers where made after 2004 so far. ALMOST all the boxers with Paralever (I can remember 1 that had lapped Aussie and NZ at that point with no problems) had significant mechanical problems, usually gearbox and/or driveshaft and/or charging system. One traveler even sent his PD back to the States and bought a F650 here in NZ to carry on his trip. One 2000 G/S had gearbox failures at 12,000 and 22,000km while in NZ. MOST of the rest of the bikes (mostly singles F650, XT600, XR650 etc with some AT and TransAlp Honda twins) had had no mechanical problems so far. Almost everyone had had suspension problems, with or without aftermarket parts. I have been told that a few years ago BMW had changed the contractor that made their gearboxes (how true that is I have no idea) and that the bikes are much more reliable now. I'm not endorsing or otherwise any brand. I own three BMWs! But until I hear the personal stories from travelers staying with me that say new BMWs are significantly better in the drive systems, I for one would not consider a boxer for a long overland trip.
Damn, I can hear the rustle of pencils crossing me off a hundred Christmas card lists!

Kind regards

Nigel in asbestos flame-proof suit in NZ

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The mouth of a perfectly contented man is filled with . -- 2200 BC Egyptian inscription

Gearboxes have been always from the (in)famous maker "Getrag", right?

R100GSes and early 95-96 R1100GSes had this noise-supressing bearing type that made some constant failure around 60Ks or so(?) On the first '94 1100 model they used the non-supressing that was much more reliable bearing, but the picky bmw users started to complain about a bit too much noise from the gearbox, so the Getrag put those noise supressing bearings on that doomed them. And then again swopped them back from '97 and on. It's called the M97 gearbox i think you're referring to, capable of post 300,000kms according to their spec. But the make is still the Getrag, fortunately or unfortunately.

The enlightening article i found is here: http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/trans.articles.html

Maybe they have changed the contractor of final drives tho, or they should if they haven't yet (the 1200s i mean)

["http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/bmw-tech/road-test-1989-bmw-r100gs-7766"]http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/bmw-tech/road-test-1989-bmw-r100gs-7766[/URL]
ChrisB

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Margus,
According to BMW reps at the GS intro in 2004, Getrag is OUT!

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

We're long past that era of unreliable bikes.

A leaky BSA, Harley, whatever, etc.

BMW became known during that time as a reliable and well engineered bike. And compared to the competition, the reputation was well eraned.

Things changed over the years with all bike manufacturers eventually making reliable machines - at least the basic components.

All motors are now reliable, in general. All electrics finally became reliable. Bikes were being built for different purposes. Obvious and nitch markets were perceived. ...running outta steam here...

Anyway...
BMW has no lock on reliablity now, as they were able to rightfully bark loudly in past years....gone way past.
A high-end brand now inventing things that they think their market will be interested in. I really see this, at least the GS, as Land Rover style and method.

The most reliable bike(s) in the world for rtw style rides...could be a marketing opportunity...maybe.

Great campfire talk.

I have recently had to make this call... What Bike...?

I'm no mechanic so reliability was paramount to my choice of Bike for a RTW trip 2up. As far as I can determine, when it comes to Motorbike reliability you can't split a BWM from a Honda apart for top spot.

U can however split the difference in the size of the repair bills between them and the Honda bikes are substantially cheaper to fix. If you are however, unlike myself, technically minded and capable of doing a lot of work yourself, including diagnosing the faults and flying parts in, then obviously the BWM cost come down.

I know its a decision based on hypothetical’s, trying to quantify the unquantifiable, will it break? if so what will break etc. etc. But I'm getting an AT although I could afford to buy either, but because I'm still poor and not that capable of fixing big faults on any motorbike myself then ‘Cash is King’ wins. Couple that with the fact that not many back street mechanics on the Indian Subcontinent have Cray computers to diagnose any BMW faults and the decision is easy



Anyway that my pennys worth

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Ciao Ciao
Fletch


“Life is not about how Fast you ride, or how Far you travel, but about how well you Bounce. ” ;o)

I BLOG There4 I Am

Some more fuel to this raging fire...

I always thought that when BMW launched the "K" series this was eventually supposed to replace the boxer. And that BMW kept making the boxer, not because it was a superior design, but because the customers still wanted it. Having owned an old boxer myself, I understand the appeal, these are very satisfying bikes to ride. But I have always wondered if BMW was continuing to update an obsolete design?

And why did BMW continue to have similar electrical problems with the boxer in the late '80s and early '90s that they had in the '70s when the K series seemed to have the electrical issues sorted out? Couldn't BMW have used some of this technology on the airheads, or was BMW just too stubborn to admit that they were wrong?

I think part of the problem is that BMW doesn't have the competition that the Japanese bikes have. Loyal BMW owners will typically buy BMW regardless of what they produce. They are loyal to their brand. Harley owners are similar. People who are partial to Japanese bikes are more partial to Japanese bikes in general than they are to a particular Japanese brand. So the Japanese manufacturers are not only competing against BMW, Trimuph, KTM and others, they are competing amongst themselves. In my opinion, this is what ultimately makes the Japanese the most reliable bikes.

Nevertheless, I will probably buy another BMW someday soon. I love the way they ride, I love the way they carry heavy loads and I love the "fraternity" I automatically join when I own one. The boxer engine is still very satisfying to ride and the center of gravity feels well planted. Yet after just having completed a trip covering 30,000 miles through 27 countries on a 17 year old Honda Transalp and having very few problems, my next trip will be on a Japanese bike. Perhaps on the same trusty Transalp. I just don't trust my mechanical abilities enough...

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Dave McMillan
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/mcmillan/

Just to get serious and calm things down a bit here...







My bike's better than your bike!






Sigh!

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Current stable: 2004 TDM900

[QUOTE=davidmc]Some more fuel to this raging fire...

They can really muck things up and then try to tell people they MEANT to do it that way

Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

a truly shared project but even that
was very limited as Kawi built the motor and Suzuki built the chassis.

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!