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31 Mar 2007
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R.I.P.
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Comparing bikes is what it is about. It's what the original poster asked about.
Sorry Hendi, but as a moto journo... well...simply put....comparing bikes is WHAT WE DO.
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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!
Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 07:27.
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6 Apr 2007
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This thread has gotten so long now that you need a couple of sittings to read it through.
I would now like to also throw my stone into the bush and just say this; Maybe the reason why there is so many complaints about BMW bikes is the fact that BMW sell almost as many motorcycles as all the Japanese manufacturers put together. This will of coarse mean more BMW's breaking down than any other bike but for every bike mile traveled do BMW's really brake down more often than other makes? This I guess is a question that will never really be answered.
BMW's are great bikes and they are really reliable, they look good and perform well and are comfortable and safe to ride and most importantly they are good value for money.
Other things that also make a company great is the after sales service provided and in this regard nobody touches BMW when you consider they are selling every part for every single model made since 1970, they have dealers in almost every main centre around the world (Western that is) and even in some smaller centres. They are the only manufacturer I know of that offer riding courses and especially an off road riding academy, they even organise events to give their clients the opportunity to meet and ride with like minded bikers.
BMW is also the only company that provide a full line of high quality rider gear and helmets.
My first bike have been a Suzuki and although it was great at the time I would never go back there not even if I could get it for free. My second bike was a BMW. Since then I have bought 6 more all GS's and ST's all at the end of their life, all were stripped down to the last nut and bolt and washer and I know every single weak point and reason why some areas tend to fail more commonly. One thing became very clear to me that 90 percent of these common failures almost always pointed to bad maintenance and repairs with cheap aftermarket alternatives.
Would I ever buy one of the new models? probably not. Do I think they are good for RTW trips? for sure not but then does BMW build bikes for RTW tourers or for people that only dream to be Charley Boorman in Mongolia or Siberia somewhere while they fight their way through peak traffic enjoying the fact that they can skip the endless lines of tin boxes on the back of an impressive looking R1200GS Adventure.
Last edited by gsworkshop; 10 Apr 2007 at 21:32.
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7 Apr 2007
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Well I am new to this site and here is my bit my of personal experience regarding BMW's, not as an owner, but a very close up observer.
In January I went along with several others, with Nick Sanders Lisbon - Timbuktu - Lisbon, about 8500 miles round trip. The most common brand was BMW, along with a 650 Pegaso, a couple of KTM 950's, a Honda Transalp and three XT660's, a Varadero and myself on a 955i Tiger.
This is what happened (DNF = did not finish)
Pegaso 650 - no problems
Transalp - chewed a chain, shot rear shock
XT660 - chewed 2 chains, bits fell off, bent swing arm? DNF
XT660 - shot shock
XT660 - Nicks bike, sort of generally got shook to bits DNF, may have finished but Nick ended up driving back up truck
Varadero - dinged wheel rim
Tiger - dinged wheel rim, rear brake lever lost argument with rock
KTM'S - no problems
but what of the BMW's?:
GS1100 - DNF, a big off, would have wrecked any bike
GS1150 - DNF, broken engine mount
GS1200 - fuel pump failed (almost new bike), luckily in Spain, got fixed
GS1200 - DNF, brake and suspension failure both at the same time
GS1200 - God did the clutch stink but finished
GS1150 - OE luggage fell off a few times, otherwise ok
GS1200 - no problems
GS80? - ancient but no problems
Obviously all the bikes ran on the same roads, tarmac, poor tarmac, apalling tarmac, rough track, rough track with lovely hidden soft sand, and those lovely corrugations of course.
This was my first venture into Africa but won't be the last, for sure it will never be on a BMW after seeing what happened to this particular bunch. Nope, I'll stick with my Tiger, which incidentally was carrying my 12 yo son as pillion and our luggage.
The bigger bikes made heavier weather of it off road, everyone had offs whatever they were riding but the BMW's did have problems that no one else suffered from, not rideability but reliability issues.
Thats my bit, make of it what you will.
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7 Apr 2007
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Oh forgot the Africa Twin. Survived a 70mph off, finished ok.
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7 Apr 2007
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Large Golden Member
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gs workshop here are few stats for you to ponder
2006 BMW produced just over 100,000 bikes
Honda sold 330,000 bikes in N America
In 2005 Suzuki produced over 3 million bikes and ATVs
Sales figures for the first quarter [2006 ] in Germany
V-Strom Forum - 2006 Sales Figures
BMW does NOT produce anywhere near the number of machines as the Japanese .
New Beemers fail at an alarming rate for such an expensive machine .
BMW have followed the old Harley method of instilling brand loyalty and camararderie by dressing their riders and organising social events for them .
Which is great if you want that kind of thing .
But does that make BMW a better bike ?
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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
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7 Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
.........
BMW have followed the old Harley method of instilling brand loyalty and camararderie by dressing their riders and organising social events for them .
..............
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I've always related BMW Moto marketing to that of Land Rover - image.
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7 Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rider
I've always related BMW Moto marketing to that of Land Rover - image.
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Yes it's very similar isn't it .
Having had Landies since I was weaned ,the new generation of poseurs make me gag somewhat .
But ,generally speaking, HUBBers are more practical and down to earth people !
No canned spray on mud effect aerosols here .
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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
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7 Apr 2007
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Aha--------- but BMW owned Land Rover for a while didn't they !
That explains it .
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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
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7 Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
Aha--------- but BMW owned Land Rover for a while didn't they !
That explains it .
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Not for long.
Twas before and after....has been for many years.
All low volume niche product mfgrs drive from image.
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7 Apr 2007
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You may chose to live in the stone age of BMW air heads. They are very romantic anachronisms...not much more.
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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!
Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 07:27.
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7 Apr 2007
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I don't need to defend BMW, for god's sakes I don't even have shares in this company so I am going to stop here.
This is what I do and if you are interested call Klaus at hpn and organize a test ride of one of their handbuilt models and make up your own mind. For me there is nothing else and now one will convince me, not because of ignorance but purely because their just is nothing else. There is only two reasons why everybody is not driving one of these and that is because you don't know about them or you do not have enough money to own one of them.
Last edited by gsworkshop; 8 Apr 2007 at 01:22.
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7 Apr 2007
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Make your own mind up
Anyone in the UK thinking of a BMW, would benefit from having a look at this site (and others) first ::. UKGS'er.com .:: - Powered by vBulletin and do some homework before being blinded by legends
My findings point to the older bikes being more robust than the newer models But then, what do I know I ride a Triumph
Trophymick
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7 Apr 2007
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Before I came back to motorcycling I did a lot of research. What I wanted was cheap, simple to repair and reliable. and.. with a right hand gearshift.
The bike a ended up choosing was the same as i had years ago, a 1970 triumph tr6, but these are horribly expensive. In the end I compromised on the gearchange and bought my 1985 r80rt. those monolevers do not have the shaft problems of the later paralever bikes, but do have an engine set up for low grade fuel. It has proved to be reliable transport. BUt, i still hate the gearchange. One day i will get either the old Triumph, or a modern lean burn Enfield Electra.
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8 Apr 2007
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R.I.P.
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And how many world championships have HPN won? Or BMW for that matter?
In any Catagory? The Japanese have hundreds...in every class of racing that
exsists.
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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!
Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 07:28.
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8 Apr 2007
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R.I.P.
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The new Bonneville is a win win bike. It even shifts pretty good. (Japanese transmissons!)
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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!
Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 07:29.
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