hello,
i posted this a few months ago on horizonsunlimited ... and can t see the thread any more

Before my trip, I chose the BMW R100GS PD (I did not have many bikes experiences before), I thought it was the ideal bike and I had on the trip a few problems with (mechanic and others).
The more I read here on Horizons Unlimited, the more I talk around with bikers/overlanders, I have this feeling that BMW GS efficiency / reliability / adaptability, etc … is a MYTH well entertained by BMW (marketing, etc … ) so bikers/overlanders got affected by whatever (?) and entertain it sometimes (?).
What s your opinion about it ? The debate can be enlarged of course. I m still wondering ...
Some ideas, arguments, nuances (every point almost here under has been discussed more or less on Horizons Unlimited, differently, this is a kind of summary, some other points can be added of course) :

1- there are many different BMW GS models : from the R80G/S to the R1200GS, F650 : there are some differences, especially maintenance.

2- which round the world tour are we talking about ? most of overlanders do it independent alone with no sponsor no mechanic crew behind them ? how many kms driven, which intensity, how long the trip takes etc … ? I don t know, let s say for example something like more than one year or/and more than 50 000 kms.

3- what s your ideal bike to ride ? a relax one, a more fun / aggressive one, reliable (are you ready to accept mechanic problems or do you want no problem ?), confortable, light, heavy, etc … NB : riding a KTM Adventure / R1200GS is not the same idea as riding a 125cc messenger bike.

4- the motorbike is a "tool" to travel around, so it s reasonable to know it well, how it works, how to maintain / fix / repair (that was not my case for example) : some people go round the world on tuk tuk, scooter, 50cc, KTM Adventure and R1200GS. To compare with photography : the camera is a "tool" for the photographer : you give the best camera to a bad photographer if he does not know how to use it, he won t take good photos and even spoil / break it.

5- When there s a mechanic problem, you sometimes need to find spare parts and "manpower / mechanician" : is it easier with Japanese bikes than BMW ??? From my experience in those far countries :
a) BMW dealers are really rare, most of them don t have spare parts and are not experienced, sorry for them !
b) yes, there are definitely more Japanese bikes but mainly 50-200 cc ones : so does it mean that you will fix easily your 500cc-1200cc Japanese bike (1-4 cylinders, 2-4 valves/cylinder) ? + Now thanx to internet, we can order anywhere.

6- Here on Horizons Unlimited, there are more "complaints" and problems on BMW GS than happy posts : maybe, people tend to post rather their problems than their happiness, maybe it s human nature also :-)

7- According to chris scott survey on : http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...stats-you-4972, the BMW GS is surprisingly not in top position.

Your contribution, ideas, thoughts, reactions are welcome

happy trails,

__________________
--
Vincent Danna

* www.va-project.com
Sept 2008 - dec 2009 : Voyage et art contemporain en Amérique du sud.

* http://vincent.danna.free.fr/
2002 - 2004 : Un tour du monde en moto.

Vincent, you posted this thread here about a year ago or even more if i remember correctly. Lot of discussion was involved.

The old post is here: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...und-world-5034

A myth or not I have used BMW for serious travels and I will do it again...

BTW: Your link doesn't work.

In the first 180kkm my BMW left me stranded once. The rotor had broken. After 150kkm the driveshaft failed but I still used the bike for some weeks after the vibration started.

Right now it is totally rebuild, engine is superb and the rest is pretty much HPN, without the gearbox which I never have opened.
I can't think of any other bike (maybe a XT?) wich can take so much beating and still start the second life after 180kkm, but if I find one I might buy it...

hello, Back in the early 90's Therese and I travelled on a 1978 R65 BMW from London to Australia.The bike was a basket case I picked up from another Aussie in London.It was put back together with a 2nd hand short motor as the big end was stuffed . I put on a set of Konis, new clutch and rechromed fork stantions.,a set of panniers and a Scottish lambs wool. with a carnet in hand we set off.It went well all the way home.26,000 k we did.the bikes only hicup was a rear main bearing in the gearbox went awol in Iran.( the only part I didn't look at) 2days and $25 US later I had rebuilt the gearbox with 5 new skf and timkin bearings in Isfahan .
The R80 GS that I've had for 21 years ,yes would have been a better chioce of bike, but it was at home . so the R65 And Bmw I think are very reliable.remember the R65 was a 400 UK pound bikeabout $600 Aussie at the time so you don't need to spend heaps .Oh ya I also drowned her in Pakistan ,a local paki and Alla had her going and back on the road within an hour.that another story

In my opinion, the GS is just waaaay too big and way too heavy, you dont need all that power-torque and you dont need all that carrying capacity unless you are traveling two up. and the BIG drawbacks are it is thirsty and expensive.

I would go better for a 500 to 650, single cyl, carbed, air cooled jap. I would use a Jap bike because the machanics in the third world would manage to fix them and pretty much nobody has dealt with broken down beemers.

Among the few good things the GSs are unbeatable in, are: comfort, looks and riding two up.

personally I would understand if anyone preffers a KTM Adventure, 990 or 640 to a DR650 or an XT600 or a GS since the previous are a lot more performance focused and some riders demand. but again you pay big time for that.

The caponord, multistrada or varadero are luxury sport-utes, that will certainly let you down on the first offroad situation you face, plus there are more plastic on them than there is motorcycle.

and the V-strom is just a joke, is an street bike in disguise.

Canuki.
zuk- xf650. (look for it on the net, its the streetable version of the DR).

Oh, and by the way, I live in Colombia (SA) and I have traveled all around my beautifull continent.

This thread has gotten so long now that you need a couple of sittings to read it through.
I would now like to also throw my stone into the bush and just say this; Maybe the reason why there is so many complaints about BMW bikes is the fact that BMW sell almost as many motorcycles as all the Japanese manufacturers put together. This will of coarse mean more BMW's breaking down than any other bike but for every bike mile traveled do BMW's really brake down more often than other makes? This I guess is a question that will never really be answered.
BMW's are great bikes and they are really reliable, they look good and perform well and are comfortable and safe to ride and most importantly they are good value for money.
Other things that also make a company great is the after sales service provided and in this regard nobody touches BMW when you consider they are selling every part for every single model made since 1970, they have dealers in almost every main centre around the world (Western that is) and even in some smaller centres. They are the only manufacturer I know of that offer riding courses and especially an off road riding academy, they even organise events to give their clients the opportunity to meet and ride with like minded bikers.
BMW is also the only company that provide a full line of high quality rider gear and helmets.
My first bike have been a Suzuki and although it was great at the time I would never go back there not even if I could get it for free. My second bike was a BMW. Since then I have bought 6 more all GS's and ST's all at the end of their life, all were stripped down to the last nut and bolt and washer and I know every single weak point and reason why some areas tend to fail more commonly. One thing became very clear to me that 90 percent of these common failures almost always pointed to bad maintenance and repairs with cheap aftermarket alternatives.
Would I ever buy one of the new models? probably not. Do I think they are good for RTW trips? for sure not but then does BMW build bikes for RTW tourers or for people that only dream to be Charley Boorman in Mongolia or Siberia somewhere while they fight their way through peak traffic enjoying the fact that they can skip the endless lines of tin boxes on the back of an impressive looking R1200GS Adventure.

Well I am new to this site and here is my bit my of personal experience regarding BMW's, not as an owner, but a very close up observer.
In January I went along with several others, with Nick Sanders Lisbon - Timbuktu - Lisbon, about 8500 miles round trip. The most common brand was BMW, along with a 650 Pegaso, a couple of KTM 950's, a Honda Transalp and three XT660's, a Varadero and myself on a 955i Tiger.

This is what happened (DNF = did not finish)

Pegaso 650 - no problems
Transalp - chewed a chain, shot rear shock
XT660 - chewed 2 chains, bits fell off, bent swing arm? DNF
XT660 - shot shock
XT660 - Nicks bike, sort of generally got shook to bits DNF, may have finished but Nick ended up driving back up truck
Varadero - dinged wheel rim
Tiger - dinged wheel rim, rear brake lever lost argument with rock
KTM'S - no problems

but what of the BMW's?:

GS1100 - DNF, a big off, would have wrecked any bike
GS1150 - DNF, broken engine mount
GS1200 - fuel pump failed (almost new bike), luckily in Spain, got fixed
GS1200 - DNF, brake and suspension failure both at the same time
GS1200 - God did the clutch stink but finished
GS1150 - OE luggage fell off a few times, otherwise ok
GS1200 - no problems
GS80? - ancient but no problems

Obviously all the bikes ran on the same roads, tarmac, poor tarmac, apalling tarmac, rough track, rough track with lovely hidden soft sand, and those lovely corrugations of course.
This was my first venture into Africa but won't be the last, for sure it will never be on a BMW after seeing what happened to this particular bunch. Nope, I'll stick with my Tiger, which incidentally was carrying my 12 yo son as pillion and our luggage.
The bigger bikes made heavier weather of it off road, everyone had offs whatever they were riding but the BMW's did have problems that no one else suffered from, not rideability but reliability issues.
Thats my bit, make of it what you will.

Oh forgot the Africa Twin. Survived a 70mph off, finished ok.

gs workshop here are few stats for you to ponder

2006 BMW produced just over 100,000 bikes
Honda sold 330,000 bikes in N America
In 2005 Suzuki produced over 3 million bikes and ATVs

Sales figures for the first quarter [2006 ] in Germany
V-Strom Forum - 2006 Sales Figures

BMW does NOT produce anywhere near the number of machines as the Japanese .

New Beemers fail at an alarming rate for such an expensive machine .

BMW have followed the old Harley method of instilling brand loyalty and camararderie by dressing their riders and organising social events for them .

Which is great if you want that kind of thing .

But does that make BMW a better bike ?

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

I've always related BMW Moto marketing to that of Land Rover - image.

Quoted by Dodger "2006 BMW produced just over 100,000 bikes
Honda sold 330,000 bikes in N America
In 2005 Suzuki produced over 3 million bikes and ATVs"

Sorry for the statement as I did not meant that it should be taken so literary, what I meant to say is that in the same class much more BMW's are sold, how much more I don't know but especially as far as the GS is concerned they sell loads more than any other make Japanese or European.

Quoted by Dodger "New Beemers fail at an alarming rate for such an expensive machine."

I am not aware of alarming rates but I am sure they might have problems from time to time like any other manufacturer.

Quoted by Dodger "BMW have followed the old Harley method of instilling brand loyalty and camaraderie by dressing their riders and organising social events for them."

Harley Davidson sells accessories for their riders to make them look good, most of these items offer no protection for the rider. BMW provide proper rider gear and have some of the best stuff on the market for example the Rally suit that is even popular with a lot of riders not riding on BMW's and especially very popular on the Dakar rally.

Quoted by Dodger "Which is great if you want that kind of thing."

I base my selection for gear on two things, price and quality with quality always first to the extent that I will rather not have it at all if I can't afford it. It just so happen that even compared to a lot of other makes I almost always come back to buy the BMW product for its quality and good design.

"But does that make BMW a better bike ?"[/QUOTE]

I have never said BMW's are better than other bike makes, I said they are good bikes as I believe there are other makes also producing good bikes and some even more capable than the GS for RTW tours.

I was desperate to go on this trip this year but I got no reply from Nick despite various emails and lots of phone calls

Hopefully will manage to come in 2008 if I can get hold of the bugger!

I've got a 1200GSAdv specially for the venture, haha - hope it's still working before we set off eh?

Cas

__________________
Puppygames! For when you're not riding

You may chose to live in the stone age of BMW air heads. They are very romantic anachronisms...not much more.

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

I don't need to defend BMW, for god's sakes I don't even have shares in this company so I am going to stop here.
This is what I do and if you are interested call Klaus at hpn and organize a test ride of one of their handbuilt models and make up your own mind. For me there is nothing else and now one will convince me, not because of ignorance but purely because their just is nothing else. There is only two reasons why everybody is not driving one of these and that is because you don't know about them or you do not have enough money to own one of them.