Definitely, this is the case.
In the UK, at least, BMW owners have very high expectations that are not always met by the dealers.

As Mark identifies, these expectations go way beyond what is expected of other marques of motorcycle. The human psychology that lies within this is something I find to be quite interesting - another form of "people watching".

Incidentally, the world over, not all mechanics/workshop techies are equal; absolutely the case.

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Dave

Dealer:
It's time to trade up sir; you need the new, 2013, wasserhead.

Joking apart, I don't see any of this thread as beating up BMW as a company; that stuff lies elsewhere in the HUBB.

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Dave

If BMW are obligating car franchise holders in small markets to carry a bike franchise as well just to get a few sales, but not insisting that they have the same level of support or trainng as in Europe then they are working against their own self imposed high customer service standards.

BMW makes a bike which is marketed as the ultimate RTW tourer and sold on the understanding that they have a worlwide dealer network second to none. If you choose a BMW over a Kawasaki because of this spiel then I think you are very naive.

I learnt in Africa 20 years ago that the dealers listed in the book in Nairobi, Lusaka and other places didn't really exist. Most were set up when BMW managed to sell a few R80s to the national police force and, since they had long been replaced by Hondas or similar, all that remained were a few service parts in a box on a shelf.

I find this fascinating--particularly so as a KLR rider. So that's the essence of what I was asking about, and there's the answer.

I really didn't mean to be insulting, or condescending, or anything else in particular....except puzzled.

I'll say that when I've had similar expectations within the small world of motorcycles and riding gear, I've often gotten my comeuppance pretty quick. I hardly even bother raging endlessly anymore about my high-end riding suit with its design and material flaws, leaks, nonfunctional closures and pockets which allow rain to enter in great quantities but totally forbid exit. I guess it hadn't occurred to me--as a KLR rider--that BMW would be any different from the people who sold me my riding suit. Your expectation, as a frequent flier, is that they will be.

Which brings to mind the phenomenon of "intermittent reinforcement." It turns out that the best reinforcers of behaviors are not predictably present or absent--they're present part of the time, but unpredictably so. Maybe if you get two worthy bikes and one bad one, you're that much more likely to come back for a fourth and fifth.

Of course, the same surely applies to KLR riders...

Mark

New aspects continue to emerge; meanwhile, the expectations of BMW continue to be very high; I am not sure why that is the case.

In my "people watching" mode I am interested in why you felt pressured into taking on responsibility for providing the spare part and what expectations you had of Peru prior to entering the country - I guess a "westernised one" regarding customer service.

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Dave

"Maybe if you get two worthy bikes and one bad one, you're that much more likely to come back for a fourth and fifth. "

Hi Mark,

Don't get me wrong. I have had 3 of these bikes now. I have had trouble with all of them but thats what you get when you ride these bikes hard across the world through different climates and terrains putting tens of thousands of KM up on them in a short time. I still like the bikes and when they are working they are great but when the break and there is nothing you can do about it other than take them to a BMW garage then they suck. I had a mechanic completely check the bike over before he towed me the 200km back to Lima. He tried everything he could to get it going on the side of the road but had to give up because EWS shuts the bike down. That is the only reason I went to BMW. Trust me when I'm at home I never go near them.

I never expect everything when travelling to be hunky dory and go to plan. Breaking down is always an adventure within the adventure. I know now that I was foolish to expect BMW to provide me with the service they claim to provide. I just want to let people know about it so they'll know what they can expect.



To answer your question Dave I really had no expectations of Peru before riding in there. I travel to see the world, to meet the people and then I form opinions on a place I guess. I never expect anything. I have ridden through parts of the world that people said I was crazy to go to and found out the people in these countries to be the most hospitable on earth, namely Iran and Pakistan.

I guess I felt pressured to get this part myself because the garage wasn't too helpful about getting it. They said it was necessary but maybe it was an expensive part for them to have to outlay for. They told me to get it if I could saying it would be much faster for you. I was encouraged to get it myself. I was not able to hang around Lima and wait for 6 weeks. If that had been the case I would have had to call off the trip and ship the bike home. I guess I had a westernised opinion of the BMW garage when I saw it for sure. It is just like any garage you would come across in Europe/USA, coffee machines an all. So yes I did expect them to act professionally. just goes to show you shouldn't take anything at face value I guess.

Thanks for ye're input guys. I do appreciate it and I have let the issue go. I'm riding from Nordkapp to Cape Town this year and I'm a little paranoid about taking this bike. If it leaves me broken down in the middle of Africa I'm going to douse it in petrol.

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Ride on
Kev

The first generation of BMW bikes with can could communicate with obd2 readers, i saw it done on an 1150. There is nothing special about bike systems except a deliberate lockout of independent dealers via weird plugs. You can just cut these off. There were also a few bike specific codes that the reader could not describe but could be decoded by hand. The 'needs to talk to Berlin' thing is BMW justifying the huge cost to their dealer network, if you don't get updates you just fall behind, the atmosphere will not catch fire, your manhood will not shrivel up, no puppies will die.

There is no advantage I can see to can on a bike to the owner. There are lots of advantages to bmw the biggest of which is that like any out of warranty consumer electronic you won't be using it in 20 years time.

The drive shaft claim will have worth recording!

Andy

i work with MAN lorries they too are on canbus. the ecu units we do not keep in stock for any lorry they are special ordered in from germany as the have a shelf life of about 2 months after that they wont work so when a truck ecu goes down we order it germany load the ecu to that specific truck we have to fit it within 2 months but we program it in the workshop to the truck. it has to talk to germany and the other ecu's on the truck. some of the big trucks have 11 ecu's running it. so i can see that if bmw are the same its just a way of keeping joe public out and they can charge what they like

The man ebs ECU has the vehicle configuration in it, anything from a 4x2 to a 10x4 which it needs for the load sensing function. Once plugged in it's only calibrating the inputs. The ecas has 2 to 5 axles of which 3 might lift, it needs to know air bag pressures related to weights. The engines are mechanically the same, the power and so on is programmed. The gearbox ECU needs telling about pto's, diff locks and so on. The suppliers all have software that can turn from blank to vehicle specific, you can guess most of what they won't tell you. The expiry is news to me. There is no clock in the brake or suspension ECU, could be the diagnostic software that is set to stuff it up if the serial number or software version has dropped off a list. That would be a useful commercial feature, but they'll blame safety, you don't want a 42 tonner on 6 axles thinking it's a parcel van and deciding to ignored the trailer and lift axle brakes.

On a truck it makes some sense. On a bike the variations are mechanically rather less significant, the electric windscreen won't kill you.

Andy

None of this leaves me feeling inspired to buy a new bike, ever.

But.....I own a new-ish car (2010 model year). It's probably got all the same stuff on board, and I expect it'll run fine for a couple of hundred thousand miles. Why doesn't it work that way with bikes?

Mark

Hi KevOk
I must admit i have to agree with Mark here,I could understand if that bike was just a few weeks old and you had some issues on the way down.But just trying to put on BMW an "maybe" miss fix from a previous owner or mechanik is just unfair i think.
I am not a BMW rider today(used to own and ride the best BMW, R-80G/S PD).
And more i went from boxers into thumpers.KSAP(keep simple as posible)
I ride an 85 Tenere!(completely overhault)
One has to make choices,to much technology on an continent you maybe personaly don´t know much could be challengeing.
Those "hightech" bikes are like smartphones.....
I have met riders with 1200 GSA that did the same trip on brand new bikes with 0 issues.Others with drive shaft problems or blown shocks......
I would just add no person was harmed or injured on the trip? Just enjoy the tales and pictures.......relax and plan with easy mind the next adventure! Remember adventure means challenge!
Ride safe

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The family car does not get taken on rough roads for long distances at speed when loaded. The wiring system on the car does not get flexed through the steering head of the motorcycle. Ok it may have wheel sensors that do get flexed with suspension movement - bet they are replaced as a service item at some mileage.. it is not on the motorcycle service scheduled.

Most of the adventure bikes don't see adventure - thus bm and others get away with things. If you look at the paris dackar vehicles - you won't see much in the way of standard things. Some of this is performance related, but some is reparability and reliability!

Hi,

Yes the "customer care" of bmw was very bad to me too. I got a nice trowses for christmas (i would have got one at louis for a fraction of the price) but later the strings were it was sewed together opened and the trowses started to fall apart, in my eyes a factory foult. I wrote many emails and also went to a bmw dealer personaly but only got the answer as long as i dont have a receipt i dont get warrenty.

Anyway im wondering why people take such expensive bikes on trips while there are so many cheaper alternatives. The Honda Transalp i used to ride around africa no problem was worth less then $1000 when i bought it. The bike i used to ride around Southamerica too. Both were easily sold at the end to also save the shiping cost:

http://afrikamotorrad.eu/?report=en_transafrika

I hold thumbs for you, Tobi

My family cars definitely get taken on rough roads for long distances at speed--loaded and not, and at higher speeds than I ride my bike on those roads because the consequences of failure or misjudgment are less severe in the car. I get a few more flats than I would otherwise, and sometimes trash steering or suspension components more rapidly, but in the main my rather low-end cars and pickup trucks have been remarkably durable over the last couple of decades (it wasn't always so, I'll admit).

I wonder about the flexing-of-wires issue, too. I've got a lot of little wires in my car steering column, many of them attached to the wheel itself, which rotates a couple of revolutions in either direction. The mechanism is designed to keep them from flexing, fraying, breaking, abrading, and it works. I'd be shocked if it didn't.

I think a lot of these issues are choices made by manufacturers, and accepted by we, the paying customers. No car-buyer--much less an airplane pilot--would accept known issues like the KLR's balancer mechanism failures (or others you could name for any brand of bike out there). There's nothing inherent in motorcycle design which requires that reliability and build quality be atrocious, at least by automotive, marine or aeronautical standards.

Mark

I don´t think it´s a matter of being expensive or not. The Transalp was expensive when it came on the market in the Eighties, and folks used it for rtw back then, too, same with the Africa Twin, the Teneré, the 80G/S and lots of other bikes. I have an AT and whilst I have ridden it for 50.000km around Europe and like it very much, I´m at some point fed up with missing ABS, about 40 additional HP and a nice, comfy seat. Reading this thread whilst considering purchasing a GSA at season´s end this year does make me wonder whether to keep the AT then, however why in the world would I not take a comfy, modern, powerful bike rtw and choose a 20 year old, solid but uncomfy workhorse to do the trip of a lifetime?

I guess I should get myself a KTM LC8 990, which I just found out yesterday was discontinued in late 2012. Bugger.
Cheers
Chris

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