I'll be in the market for a new bike soon, and I've more-or-less narrowed it down to two options: The Suzuki DR650 and the Honda CB500x with Rally Raid kit.

I've been around bikes for a while, and I've done a lot of reading, so I'm pretty knowledgeable about both (and other) bikes, but I've found it always helps to get some perspective from others.

About ten years ago, I took a three-month trip through Mexico and Central America on a 2005 V-Strom that was pretty much stock. The bike did great. I considered it to be about the perfect bike for me on the trip. I did hit a few gnarly roads that I had to go slow on, but outside of a couple of places like that, the V-Strom was just right.

I sold the V-Strom a few years ago and moved to Colorado, just outside Denver. It's time to get a new bike.

I do a ton of mixed riding and I put a lot of miles on my bikes. When I sold the V-Strom, it had 135,000 miles on it after about seven years of ownership and it never needed anything other than normal maintenance. My biggest complaint about the V-Strom was the low ground clearance and weight.

I'm not an adrenaline junkie, nor do I typically do long days in the saddle. My average touring mileage is about 225-250 miles per day, though a 500-mile day is not unheard of. I enjoy paved roads, gravel roads, and even some unimproved dirt roads, though I've never been a true dual-sport rider.

In the next couple of years, I'd like to head back south, through Mexico, Central America, maybe cross over to South America, and then beyond that, who knows? My next bike will almost certainly be the bike that I do that on.

I've always been a fan of the DR650, though I've never actually ridden one. My biggest concern right now is longevity. From what I've read, I should expect the single-cylinder engine to go about 75-80,000 miles before I'll need some major work. I don't like the idea of that. I'd really like to get something that can go well over 100,000 miles without blinking.

As for the CB500x, I have not ridden that either, but it looks like an amazing setup, but compared to the DR650, it's 50-60 lbs heavier and therefore a bit more of a handful off-pavement. I prefer lighter bikes. I have no worries that the Honda would take me probably 200,000 miles and it would probably be more comfortable in everyday riding.

So... what do you think? What bike would you like to have in and around Colorado, and eventually to the end of the earth?

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

Maybe you need to answer what kind of experience are you looking for?
Is having a bike that can do 100 000miles more important than living what you want to live?

I know which one I would pick. The one that is easier to push around, climb stairs, put on a small boat, ride in the mud and sand, ... My needs may be different than yours.

Patrick

I have owned one Dr which I toured 12 k kms around New Zealand on. I also ridden a Dr around 5 k kms in Bolivia. The Cb500x I have rented in Thailand and I did around 2500 kms on it, it was the standard version, not the RR.

The Dr are by many considered the best travel bike ever. Its lightweight (under 150 kilos dry) its almost bulletproof and very well suited as a travel bike. However it does need many mods to get its potential out, such as a bigger fuel tank, suspension upgrade, seat upgrade, etc etc. It will not do anything great but it will do all reasonably well.

The Cb500x - is also a good bike for what it is. Its a Honda and by that almost bulletproof, it has amazing fuel consumption, and with the RR kit its probably halfdecent on gravel roads. But with the RR kit its not cheap anymore. Its also quite heavy for what it is. I only found the wet weight for it right now which is 195 kilos, so probably around 180 kilos dry. And that is more than 30 kilos more than the Dr. And when going off tarmac we all know the 3 most important things is weight, weight and weight. So with that in mind the Dr would definetively be better off tarmac. But on tarmac the 500X would be the better imo.

So it comes down to what priorities you have, will you spend much time off tarmac? Or on tarmac? What other things are important for you? Fuel milage and costs?
You probably wont go wrong with any of those bikes, its just a matter of what prioities you have and what features that you find important in a travel bike.

__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

Its really down to personal preference, I nearly bought a V Strom 650 for our South America trip and 2 up it would have been a much better bike than the DR650 we rode, but now using the DR solo for Canadian back country trips is way more fun than a V Strom. If you are riding unsealed roads its a great bike. The DR also crashes well, I have dropped and crashed mine more times than a hot potato - no fairings or expensive plastics, simple CV carb and it has a huge following in North America with lots of aftermarket parts. However, they do need a lot of aftermarket parts and upgrades to get them decent to ride, namely suspension work, seat, bigger tank etc.

The CB500X has a lower seat height and carries its weight well, it is also a lot smoother with the extra pot and EFI - better on the highway with a 6 speed gearbox and it has ABS, with a Rally Raid kit they will go 90% of where a DR will go. As Snakeboy says, the full RR kit is bloody expensive, almost the price of a used DR650!

Id suggest taking them both for a test ride - fin a Suzuki and Honda dealer event where they do test rides - or better still find someone locally with a modified DR and even a CB500X

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Just to throw a spanner in the works, it might be worth waiting to see what ktm do with the 390 adventure, if they get the weight right the engine has similar power to what your looking at and is very good mpg too.

If you arent going to ride in North America, a DR650 will do great.

I you are going to ride a lot and rack up 135k miles again, consider another DL650 or a CB500 rally Raid like you saidé The CB will cot a lot more than a good used DL650.

I traveled two up on the wee strom in South America for 9 months and the bike did pretty well despite the obvious shortcomings.



BTW: it's for sale in Colombia. Do you want it?

__________________
Alaska 2014: Hotel Budget ZeroXmas in Death Valley, New Year in Urique

So ... like you I live in CO - opposite side on the Western Slope - lots of mixed riding here as well - and as others have said - personal preference and riding style will dictate your choice ... keep in mind I ride solo in remote areas in the West regularly - no easy help / cell service, etc. and a conservative and intermediate level of skill off road / typically ride loaded with light weight camping gear in travel style ... here's my take

1. Currently have a DL650 - Awesome Road and gravel road bike solo and 2 up - as you've experienced - dangerous for anything challenging off road for my skill level and areas of back-country / available help, level of confidence - no fun to pick up off road - but bike is well set up to crash - loaded for travel with top box and soft panniers ... around 535-545#

2. Had a DR650 - DR was ok solo - better road than off road for me due to skill and the weight - although have to say and have seen this bike to be very capable off road in the right hands - just not mine - limped my way through the White Rim Trail in Moab loaded up a few years back, SAND kills my confidence even after several trainings ... cramped 2 up and not used this way very often by me - had all the usual mods to make it dirt worthy/ travel ready and "crash-able" - still a bear to pick up when napping, especially when loaded for travel - rear rack (no top box) and soft panniers - about 405-410#

3. Had a KLX250 - under powered for altitude - but easy off road and easy to pick up ... you are a slow moving target on the road with the 75 mph zones out by me - fully loaded up for bike camping and travel - topped out @ 65mph jetted and piped ... around 325-335#

4. And the winner for solo riding / travel / and off road ... my other bike ... a lightly used / lowered 2007 DRZ400S - not as good for long highway slogs as my DL650 the DR650 or your CBX RR choice; not as light or easy to pick up as my previous KLX250 off road - but easier by far than either of your choices - a whopping 46# lighter than the DR650 - your CBX RR splits between your old DL and the DR ... DRZ, fully loaded w/ bike camping and travel gear - soft panniers and rear duffel... around 340-355#.

For Me - the DRZ is good enough for a steady hour or 3 to safely travel on the posted 75 mph highway around me to get to dirt or gravel - it is buzzy at this speed, but manageable and I accept it - and - for my style of solo riding in often remote areas - a goldilocks between my DL650, my old DR650 and KLX250. Jenny @ Rally Raid makes the CBX RR look easy in all the "Hard" places I ride - as do others on their DR650's - that wouldn't be me ...

Overall Cost to achieve your mileage goal I think would be fairly equal - though it would be 1 CBX RR package or 2 fully done DR650's or DRZ400's for similar distance.

Gauge your Confidence, Skill and Where you want to go - pick the bike that covers the aspect of holding that confidence in the least desirable circumstances for your skill and is the least objectionable in it's area of weakness for where you want to go ...

Best

Thanks Patrick,

I guess that's the question I'm trying to ask. I'm looking for a bike that will do good on the canyon roads around my house, the odd forest road here and there, and can also get across the extreme mountain passes.

And in the next couple of years I've been tossing around the idea of heading south as far as I can go.

So what kind of experience am I looking for? I'm looking for a bike that will safely, comfortably, and reliably do those things.

I don't purposely seek out single-track or other off-road adventures... but sometimes I come across a track I want to go down, so you never know.

For the moment, purchase price and fuel costs aren't terribly important. I've been saving up for a new bike for a little while now, and even the DR650 gets decent fuel mileage.

It's a good idea to test ride each of them.

And I like the idea of a bike that crashes well. I did drop my V-Strom a few times, and fortunately never suffered any major damage, but I've read about many simple drops that destroyed plastic. That's a big factor.

I just can't imagine a KTM will fit my needs.

I'm not impressed by power specs.

I'm much more interested in long-term reliability, and though my experience with KTM is limited, my understanding is that KTM does not stand for long-term reliability.

Ha! I wish.

Glad to hear the V-Strom did so well in Latin America. It was originally the bike I was planning to buy again until I started expanding my search.

Jamie

Hey Outwest,

Thanks for the response. It sounds like you and I have very similar riding tastes and abilities, and you bring up a good point. Almost all of my riding is solo, and I've watched a few YouTube videos of guys riding over some Colorado passes, and that gives me some pause. I'd hate to get in a situation that I needed help.

Actually, the DRZ was a big part of my interest in the DR650, and also my concern.

A few years ago, I had a friend/acquaintance with a DRZ400 who took some epic multi-month trip around North America. I really admired her bike; really got me interested in something like that.

But I noticed that she kept having problems with the bike. It seemed like it was breaking down every week. And then she had to have it in the shop for some major work at one point.

I asked her about it, and she responded with something to the effect of, "Well, it has 40,000 miles on it. Of course it's going to need some work."

...and that was kind of the deal-breaker for me. At the time, my V-Strom had nearly 100,000 miles on it, and it had never needed anything other than brake pads and oil changes. I would eventually put 40,000 more miles on that bike, again without anything but regular maintenance, before selling it. As far as I know, it's still on the road.

I realize her bike is just one example, and to her, the bike was still perfect for what she wanted, but I guess I got so used to the utter reliability of the big twin that the thought of a bike that needs an overhaul so "soon" turns me off.

It's hard for me to judge my own abilities... I feel pretty confident on a bike, and when I had my V-Strom, I took it in a lot of places where I was probably in over my head. Nothing dangerous, but just a lot of work. But I almost always made it.

I recall on my trip through Mexico, I met up with a rider on a KLR. We went up a rutted, gravel mountain road with tight switchbacks. On the way back down, the KLR guy said he was going to go on ahead because it was getting dark and his headlight was terrible. He wanted to get down to the bottom before dark. So he took off. I followed right behind him all the way down, and when we got to the bottom, he expressed shock that I was able to keep up with him on my "big" bike.

That said, I've never owned a real dual-sport.

In another incident, I led a group of riders on an afternoon ride through some moderately twisty roads in Tennessee. Several of the guys were on cruisers. One guy was on a sportbike. After lunch, I said to the group that the next section was especially curvy and I was going to pick up the pace a bit, and if they wanted to hang back, we'd all regroup at the next intersection. The sport bike guy was the only one who stayed with me, and when we stopped, he stated that he'd never leaned his bike over so far.

That's not to overstate my riding abilities, but it goes to show the versatility of the V-Strom. I'm kind of looking for the same type of experience.

As Snakeboy said above, I can't go wrong with either bike. But I'm just trying to narrow down the fine details to figure out if one or the other would be better suited for me.

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

The coming Yamaha Tenere 700 seems to be a good candidate for the high speed roads of north america and also your next trip.

If possible, maybe you should allow yourself to have two bikes: one for high speed riding in North America and one just for the trip/offroad riding in Colorado.

I don't know your offroad riding background. Maybe you are very experienced, if not those two years could be used to ramp up your off road riding skills. You can ride most of South America on pavement but it is fun to ride offroad in Bolivia, Brazil,... it's been a while but Pirelli MT21 were very cheap in Bolivia. Cheap way to add more fun!

You have already been to Mexico. So you have an idea of how is the riding over there. Did you enjoy all the "topes"? Even if not riding offroad, the ground clearence of the DR650 is fun to have in order to pass those speed bumps at good speed and passing cars. If you pick the DR650, the key to not feel its weight is to set your susppension properly: at minimum have fork springs of .58kg/mm with race tech gold valves (blue spring, 1 to 2 turns, 15W oil, add an extra bleed hole) Select your rear spring base on your luggage and add a race tech gold valve for more rebound. Also by being lighter, the DR650 gives you more options for hotels since it is easier to move around.

Unless you are planning to ride mud during the rainy season in the Amazon area. There is not much a need to go with a smaller bike for Central and South America.

Also keep in mind that you may not come back from South America with your bike. Why not just select a bike for the trip only?

Patrick

This was my point above in stating that you would be on to the 2nd "next/different" DR/DRZ to get to the mileage you're interested in, having "used up" the first one so to speak, unlike your friend who was fixing a tired bike ...

If this "KLR" type of riding interests you More - get the DR or DRZ and live with the short comings on the road and having to replace the bike with another one to reach your desired 100k+ mileage using this model ...

OR... if this "Sports" type of riding interests you More - get the CBX RR and ... live with the short comings off road but get the desired mileage from the longer lived bike that this seems to be ...


And I agree with Snakeboy - the details are in the type of riding you Most enjoy and whether you're willing to replace a single cylinder bike every 50-60k or just want one, more road oriented twin that will take more abuse and therefore last the distance you ask of it but be more of a handful off road - though arguably better off road than your DL650 in selecting the CBX RR kit - what fun decision you have!
...

Best

2 cents coming in...

There really are no 'shortcomings' with the LEVEL 2 CB500X when it comes to the kind of 'off-road' riding you'd be attempting on a travel bike loaded with luggage - it will eat up everything you're going to be prepared to ride on an overland trip.

Equally, the DR650 is a great dual-sport bike that can also rack up serious mileages on RTW style overland trips - loads of aftermarket support, cheap (especially secondhand) - although you'll have to do quite a number of modification$ to a stock one to get it anywhere near approaching the on-road comfort and high-mile-munching ability of the CB, and it will still never be an EFi twin.

However, if you're also going to ride it unladen, just for fun, then the lighter weight of the DR is going to potentially give you a little extra margin for mistakes off-road, but don't discount the excellent and engine and transmission on the Honda - it makes it very easy and forgiving to ride off-road too.

Both bikes have been around the world, the length of the Americas and Africa too... If I was embarking on a long-distance trip, I would the CB every time. If I wanted to play around off-road and trail-ride at weekends, it would also be the CB - but the DR is great for that too ;o)

As others have suggested - it's probably best to get a ride on both if you can, see how they fit you, and tot-up just how much you'd need to spend on either to get them to the specification you desire for your planned trip... don't forget you can pick up used CB500Xs for around $3000 these days too now (the first ones came out in 2013).

Ultimately I consider that either will serve you well.

Jx

The biggest shortcomings I see with the CB500x is the weight and the bodywork.

My biggest complaint about the V-Strom was the weight. I pack light, but loaded up, it was a bear. I decided when I sold it that I'd probably get something lighter. While the CB is lighter than the V-Strom, it's still pretty heavy.

...and the bodywork. The first time I truly saw a 500x up close was a couple months ago when I hosted a motorcycle traveler who was riding one (in stock form). I was quite surprised at how much plastic was on the bike. One minor drop which lands the wrong way, and that's an expensive or ugly repair.

On the other hand, I've been very impressed with the reviews and videos I've seen of the Rally Raid kit on the 500x. There's no doubt it would suit my needs.

The DR is no lightweight either, I'll admit. But it's quite a bit lighter than the Honda, and from what I can tell, noticeably more off-road worthy. It's not like I'll be riding technical single track on either bike, but rocky jeep trails are in my future for sure, and the bike will certainly be loaded for a few days camping.

The biggest shortcoming of the DR that I can see is long-term durability, and to a limited extent, comfort on a long ride. I consider the carburetor to be a shortcoming too, as I quite often go up over 10,000 feet (3000 m) as well as much lower elevations. Other people say the carb is fine... so maybe that's not a concern.

There's a fairly newish CB500x for sale near me for what I consider a reasonable price. That bike is half the reason I decided to post this thread. It might be a good time to buy.

Outwest, you're absolutely right that this is a wonderful decision to have to make, but I've been debating this in my mind for quite a while. Some days I decide for sure that the right bike for me is the DR, and then the next day something will pop into my head and make me realize that the CB is the perfect bike. Ugh.

I'm tempted to just flip a coin.

Heh.

Thanks for all the ideas everyone. I really need to get on both bikes and see what I think. If I find a stock CB500x to ride, how similar is that to Rally Raid improvements? That is, is it fair to rate the CB500x in stock form if what I'm really after is the Rally Raid model?

Jamie

Hi Jamie - I'm not going to recommend one over the other - both will do what you ask, so it's going to come down to what are your actual priorities?

That said - as you are probably aware, I do have a lot of experience with the CB500X (and the Rally-Raid kit), so can certainly clarify any issue/s you may have with regard to that bike... and no.1 would be your concern with regard to the bodywork vulnerability... honestly, don't be - the bike drops and crashes exceptionally well. You may have already seen the Rubicon Trail video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7jpOMaGnps

...and if you watch the summary after the ride, you'll see none of the panel work was damaged at all, despite some pretty hefty drops on nasty rocks.

Now of course, you might be unlucky, but equally, in my experience, you need not worry - the bike is very narrow, and if you've fitted decent hand-guards (and bars), that tends to take the brunt in the event of a fall, while the tank/fairing body-work remains nicely tucked out of the way.

As for the weight - yes, it is a 200Kg machine, but it is also a very short and compact bike, so all that weight is very much between your knees, and it feels very nimble to ride. It might sound a little facetious, but really - it's only heavy when you have to pick it up - and as I mention above, the tractability and general forgiving nature of the power delivery means you very rarely end up dropping it in the first place...

As for how a stock bike compares to the LEVEL 2 bike (for those not familiar, that is +2" suspension and 17/19" wheels), it really is night and day... The best thing to do is to dip into the Rally-Raid CB500X thread in the Vendor section on ADVrider, as there is loads of information and customer experiences there - but in a nutshell, I'd suggest the LEVEL 2 spec really is the 'sweet spot' for this kind of genuine 50/50 all-terrain bike - in that it feels like a larger [ADV] bike on the highway, but handles more like a 650 thumper on the trails.

Ergonomically they are still similar of course (so if a stock one is comfortable and fits you, so will the RR version), but the quality of the suspension and overall stability and handling is significantly improved - particularly with the extra travel and larger 19" front wheel...

for info. this guy thought so too in a recent video (note. he has a DR650 too!) - he seemed to like it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqqCxB9JDSs


I'm confident you won't be disappointed - as you may know, I worked closely with John at Rally-Raid to create exactly the kind of 'adventure' bike around this twin-cylinder platform that we wanted to be just as capable both on and off-road... but equally if what you really are after is a large-capacity dual-sport, then the DR is an excellent and proven choice too.

I may well see you over on the other channel ;o)

Jenny x

Damn you Jenny,

I hadn't seen that video and you make a hell of a case.

What are my actual priorities? I guess that's why I'm here. I want a bike that will safely, comfortably, and reliably get me anywhere in the world I happen to be in.

For a time, it seemed obvious that the DR650 was the best choice.

The very early parts of your video reminded me of a road I took in Guatemala, which was challenging on a V-Strom with street tires. I barely made it. And when I watched your video I thought we were in the same boat until I saw the terrain you were taking that bike over.

You've made my decision even harder. Thanks.

Ugh.

Jamie