Background: I bought my XT as a winter bike to save my beautiful Ducati from the mud of my daily commute. I found I preferred the XT for 90% of my needs, and although I have changed the 'better' bike several times, the XT is still the bike I choose for most rides. I have toured in Europe (road only) on 'proper' touring bikes (e.g. Honda Pan, Triumph Sprint), but they are not really what I want. I like the tall stance, wide bars and upright position of the XT, and like the way the bike encourages you to take your time and smell the flowers, rather than get your head down and munch the miles at high speed.


So I am considering selling the 'better' bike and getting something more suited to the touring I want to do. Parameters are as follows:

• Ability to cruise at ~70 mph
• All-day comfortable
• Able to take a light pillion along with full luggage
• Upright riding position and easy frame geometry
• Able to tackle light off-road (unmade roads, gravel tracks, nothing serious)
• Robust and able to take a few knocks
• Mechanically/electrically simple (i.e. no CANBUS, although FI is fine with me)
• Reasonably light (max about 200-210 kg dry)
• Fast enough to be fun!

The XT already ticks a lot of these boxes, but it is quite elderly and would need quite a bit of work (and expense) before I would be happy with it for a long trip. Also, I haven't enjoyed riding it with a passenger. The weight issue pretty much rules out the 1100/1150GS, and the newer 650/800 GS would probably be too expensive (and I'm not keen on the looks!). I'm 6ft and 15st, so a high seat isn't a problem - in fact, the less I have to bend my knees the better these days


Trips would be 90% road and 10% mild off-piste, mostly in Europe. We're definitely planning to tour France and Germany, possibly Italy, and a long-term goal is to visit Nordkapp and also Morocco before I get too old. I can probably spend about £3k, although if I found a bike that ticked all the boxes I might push to a bit more. Bikes I have on a kind of shortlist are:

• Honda Dominator
• Yam XT660R (had one, loved it)
• Yam XT660Z Tenere
• Honda Africa Twin (and Transalp? They seem to have almost identical specs)
• Kawasaki Versys
• Suzuki V-Strom 650/1000
• Triumph Tiger 955i

This isn't an urgent thing. I will probably change before next summer, but until then I am having a good long think. Any observations on the above (and another other suggestions about possible candidates) would be very welcome.

I ought to add that I am a big fan of XTs. I've had 4 (350 x 2, 600E, 660R) and my initial thoughts are towards the Tenere, but I have also hankered after an AT for a long time. I've rabbited on long enough. Over to you.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

"Able to take a light pillion along with full luggage"

Some will disagree, but I think that one strongly calls for at least 2 cylinders on the engine.

I know what you are saying. To clarify, the passenger would be my daughter, who weighs about 55kg, and the luggage would be panniers and a topbox. We are not planning on carrying camping gear etc. I may well be camping solo, and I guess the weight of that would be less than a passenger.

Thanks for the response.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

Depends on the pillion. For my wife, if we want to do more than 100 miles a day a twin is better. I've done 400 mile days on singles two up where the pillion was limited with what other modes of transport were available and were used to tarvelling light. An F650 pillion seat is better than a back packer bus that isn't due to leave for a week.

For completeness I'd add the BMW G650GS and old single F650 to the list. Had two, know what breaks, consider them no better or worse than anything else. The Tiger is a monster, closer to the big GS's than XT's/Transalps/Wee's.

I'd be buying on condition vs price with a 3 grand limit, so I wouldn't be looking for any specific model, just low miles are careful owners. If you know model years and where to buy bits for Yamahas that would be where I'd look, spend your money on mechanically reliable of sort any minor cosmetics.

I'll give a big thumbs up to the Wee, but I've barely used mine yet so feel free to give due weight to that opinion.

Andy

Get a test ride on a vstrom. I've recently changed from a Zx6r to a strom and love it. Loads of grunt, super comfy, amazing mpg, happy pillions. I've done long road tours and quite a bit of gravel track stuff with it too and enjoyed it all. I had a test ride on the xt660z before i got it and although i liked the motorcross feel of it it just didnt touch the strom for power and comfort in my ability. Also the motor is just so much smoother than the big singles. Like others before me have pointed out the vstrom is not an off road machine but its well capable of gravel fire tracks which is more than most tourers ever see.

You're not the only person to say this to me. I'll try to find one for a test ride, as your description sounds like what I am looking for. I guess what I am hankering after is a bike with the chuckability and general ease of use of my XT600, but with more power, comfort and luggage-carrying ability. Is yours the 650 or the 1000?

(No-one has mentioned the Africa Twin or the Versys yet ...)

Thanks to you both.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

I've had similar thoughts to those in your question here BlackDogZ, for similar, but not exactly the same, reasoning.
So far, I have written off any thought of using a single cyl in these circumstances, so they are not on my list for this purpose. As per an earlier post, two, or more, cyls is a must when a pillion is considered.
The AT owners are asking very silly, inflated prices here in the UK which one or two people seem prepared to pay, now and again; in any case quite a few on offer have fairly high mileage which doesn't help in the slightest if you aim to do your own high mileage.
The 650 versys is interesting but it may be a bit weak in the sub-frame; there is a report somewhere in here (Kawa tech I think) that says they are fine for two up, but Kawa do not recommend both a top box and panniers together - so they don't provide fittings for that combination.
The latest Transalp (700cc) is a good bike but the tank range is pretty limited - a problem that is not unique to the Transalp.
For a twin cyl I would add the TDM 850/900 to your own list especially for your proposed budget of 3K; it is on my list.
I also like the cbf1000 in the 4 cyl category; it is very under rated and rarely mentioned for travelling with a pillion.

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Dave

Thanks for the tip about the Versys. 2-up-ability is essential, but if it can't take topbox and panniers together it's less useful. I'll have a read around about this.

I hadn't even considered the TDM (put off many years ago by Bike magazine's comment of 'don't say the name too quickly') but it looks like it might fir the bill - decent size/comfort/power but not too heavy. 190kg dry is a lot lighter than my old Bonneville, for example.

TDM goes on the list ... thanks.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

Blackdog,
Time to make up your mind yet?
I have:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...709#post390337

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Dave

Yes indeed - it happened today. The deal with the F650GS went through, and it is now sitting on my drive. It's what you suggested, only with one cylinder instead of two.

All I had from the BMW guy was a model number, 2004 date and 20k miles, together with a fuzzy photo. It was a bit of a leap of faith, but in the end the bike was much better than I expected - full BMW service history, full system panniers and topcase, tank bag, immobiliser, ABS ... pretty much what I was looking for, and then some.

When I look back to the 'shopping list' you quote above, it ticks all the boxes. Except, perhaps, fast enough to be fun. I've taken it out once today, in the pouring rain, and the word 'gutless' comes to mind. I'm used to the XT with thumping torque and a breathless top end. This one is the reverse - slow off the mark but runs well up to 60/70 mph or so, and with more to come. I think I will need time to get used to that. But in terms of cold market value, I have come out of this deal well ahead, I think.

So, my first ever BMW. No-one is more surprised than me.

Thanks to everyone who commented and advised. I really appreciate everyone's input.

And Walkabout - good times with the Versys. A mate has one as a 'daily bike' to complement his VFR and he loves it to bits.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

I never thought of the 650GS as gutless; I stepped off one to get this Versys. 90 MPH was possible with the GS, one up and with luggage, although by then it really was running out of steam and it was not a comfortable ride - I only touched that speed with the single cyl once or twice, and not for long, on the German autobahns. It could cruise at 80 MPH (indicated) all day.
You will be seduced by the smoothness of the engine and the MPG that it will deliver for you.
I agree, you have a good deal; my 2005 non-ABS, went for £2650, so you can feel good with your deal.

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Dave

An 80 cruise is all I really need, so that's fine. I think what I have noticed is a lack of punch from a standstill. The XT barks and it's off, making traffic jamming a pleasure. The GS seems a lot more leisurely, as if the throttle cable is made of elastic. Sort of flat. But that's on the basis of a 20-mile ride in the pouring rain, so it's no more than an initial impression. When I get used to slinging it about like I do with the XT, I may change my mind.

I did read something (can't remember where) about the throttle cable having two locations in the twistgrip, one being for a 'restricted power' version. I didn't know there was one ... is this something you have come across? The output certainly feels less than the XT, which from the factory had only 43 (?) bhp and is probably a lot less than that 18 years later. The GS is supposed to have 50 bhp, and I was expecting a bit of an improvement. I'll run it a few weeks before I start making judgements, though. It may just be me.

It does sound a bit like my lawnmower, only quieter, on the standard pipes, though ...

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

It was 'just me'. 50 miles, sunny afternoon, dry roads - wahey!

Yes, this feels like 50 bhp to the XT's 40-odd. The long-travel throttle was making me think it had less power. It just makes it differently - the XT makes it all at the bottom end and the GS needs to rev. Short-shifting on big throttle openings, which makes the XT fly, does nothing on the GS.

Now very happy.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

The sound was fine for me but I always use earplugs having known loads of folks who have lost some amount of hearing capability (not always because of bikes).
My 650GS was restricted from new, and that was done with an insert put in by a BMW dealer which was near to the FI system (I never really looked to see exactly where it was). In theory it restricted the HP, as per UK regulations for new riders, but in fact it just stopped the throttle turning through it's full range. In other words, I don't think it changed the HP output of the engine one jot.
Maybe there is more than one way of "restricting HP" on the F650GS?

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Dave

The F650 is like a lot of BMW's in that it takes some time to acclimatise, and then you will find that you have bought the "best in class". I have had all sorts of motorcycles over the years and this has stood the test of time, winters, offroad, track-days, long tours, motorways, crashes, overloading and anything else you can think of. You have the combination of durability of components, fuel economy, comfort, handling,much lower than average running costs, huge list of accessories and dealer back up that is top class if you want it. Oh, I nearly forgot, faultless reliability that has been unmatched by any other bike that I have ever owned, except maybe for a K100, but that wont match it anywhere else in versatility and daily use.