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30 Mar 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi2831
Hello
3.5l/100km on a XT660Z?
Not in my wildest dreams. Never read that someone achieved this over a long term back home.
I did 4.75l/km riding really relaxed on small dirt roads.
Up to 5.5l/100km on highways but hardly over 100km/h due to saving tires.
Wind and lugguage play a big part in fuel consumption.
So to me, 5l/100km on average is nothing to worry about with the engine.
I bought an other used Z (better than restore the old one) and it uses the same amount of fuel.
Yamaha changed the part on the new models and on the service if complained by 08-09 models.
I bought my Z new in 2011 BUT Yamaha Switzerland had too many 08 models on stock, so they slipped me a 08 in black.
Because of the rectifier problem I didn't go for a used 08-09 model and bought a new one... Found out on the road, best indicator ist the seat, 08 model is made of only one piece , then of course the VIN and Google.
sushi
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3,5 l/100 kms is what I had on the Ten when it was newish. And 4l/100kms after changing sprockets to 3 teeth more on the rear and loaded up for a RTW trip.
And now 5l/100 if constantly ridden in fuel saving modus.
Its obvious that something isnt right, and thats with your bike too. A carburated Dr650 has 25 % less fuel consumption, a new V-Strom has 25-40 % less fuel consumption, a BWW 650 GS with rotax engine the same as the V-Strom. I could go on until we both fall asleep of boredom. 5l/100 kms on a fuel injected bike ridden moderately is faaar too much. My dads 1400 kilo 125 HP car uses less fuel than my Tenere.... 
My Ten is a 2011 for sure. So then I can stop thinking about the oil drenage problem I hope....
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30 Mar 2018
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Hello
The above written 4.75-5.5 l/100km is what I remember by simple calculating in the head at the gas Station.
Just had a look at my statistic of my RTW.
I wrote everything in a excell, but only xx.x Liter, so there is a statistic error, in reality it's higher than that:
104150km 4.55l/100km
Big brother has more data:
https://www.spritmonitor.de/de/ueber...30&powerunit=2
sushi
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30 Mar 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
3,5 l/100 kms is what I had on the Ten when it was newish.
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no you didn't, 4.XX is what you can get most of that engine unless you're riding on neutral downhill...
3.xx gets my nc750x parallel twin and not always...
Yamaha XT660Z Tenere MPG - Actual MPG from 65 Yamaha XT660Z Tenere owners
BTW is it your first bike?
p.s.
Dude, and you really think that RTW trip tests the bike reliability the most and makes you more important ??? Number of steady, empty kilometers accumulated ??? I can as well put bike on stand in my garage and make it run all night.
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30 Mar 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremens
no you didn't, 4.XX is what you can get most of that engine unless you're riding on neutral downhill...
3.xx gets my nc750x parallel twin and not always...
Yamaha XT660Z Tenere MPG - Actual MPG from 65 Yamaha XT660Z Tenere owners
BTW is it your first bike?
p.s.
Dude, and you really think that RTW trip tests the bike reliability the most and makes you more important ??? Number of steady, empty kilometers accumulated ??? I can as well put bike on stand in my garage and make it run all night.
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I have told you what fuel milage I got and if you dont belive it its your problem not mine.
I have had 9 bikes alltogether. And I have rented many different models to try them/test them. I have been on organised bike tours with different models and I have borrowed friends bikes - so I have experience on around 20 different models.
Yes of course a RTW trip or a long overland trip is the ultimate test for a bikes quality. Because that let the bike be tested with under all kinds of climates, all kinds of road conditions etc etc often loaded up with gear and equipement. Actualky that goes without saying. This forum is actually intended for overlanding and RTW-trippers. Im sure there are a forum that suit weekend riders like you somewhere out there...
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30 Mar 2018
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Yes, but did he specifically replace the valves, guides and guide seals??? Sounds , like he lapped the valves in to me, possibly re-cut the seats, which implies he reused the valves. Even if he put new valves in , did he replace the guides???
I do suspect new valves, guides and seals would solve your oil problem and possibly your fuel mileage problem as well, although it isn't actually that bad at 55 mpg imperial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
Well - last top end rebuild I got a completely new cylinder mounted and new piston, rings etc. Top and valves overhauled and machined - but the bike still uses oil and fuel consumption is still shitty.
I had a Triumph Tiger 955 earlier on and at one stage that bike also started to use a whole lot of oil. But I got it rebuild and it was good as new, no oil consumption and fuel consumption was never an issue on that. Its strange to think about that if I rode the tuned 950 cc Tiger with around 110 HP in 80-90 km/h it used notably less fuel than my 48 HP Tenere at the same speed. Fuel is the single biggest expense on a RTW trip so it bothers me a lot, and especially since the Tenere newish I could get 27-28 kms/l.
I would like to hear more about the «ventilation of the engine» issue with the Tenere? Mine is running hot too for the moment, I have had thought about oil circulation issues or the PVC valve and the breather box. Breather box was improvisedly fixed at one stage. But unfortunately Im not very mechanically skilled so I dont know...
KTM 690 has many issues that I have read about, at least the earlier models. But then again its a highly tuned high performance machine. Its not a tractor like the Tenere. Anyhow - KTM was not a part of TS questions...
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30 Mar 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docsherlock
Yes, but did he specifically replace the valves, guides and guide seals??? Sounds , like he lapped the valves in to me, possibly re-cut the seats, which implies he reused the valves. Even if he put new valves in , did he replace the guides???
I do suspect new valves, guides and seals would solve your oil problem and possibly your fuel mileage problem as well, although it isn't actually that bad at 55 mpg imperial.
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Its difficult for me to say. The top and valves job was done at another workshop than the rest of the job so of course they can have been easy on that part.
About fuel milage - you must consider Im riding maximum 80-90 kms/h, and sometimes far slower than that. Average out on 65-70 km/h I suspect.
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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
Last edited by Snakeboy; 30 Mar 2018 at 22:44.
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30 Mar 2018
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But thanks for the advise, I will definetively investigate about the top and valve job...
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31 Mar 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Lischinsky
The yamaha is a xt660r 2006 or 2008
The bmw is a gs650 f 1 cil 2002
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Hello
To return back to the original topic....
How many miles/KM have those bikes?
When I buy a bike I count KM x years.
A single cylinder bike has payed its dues after 100'000km or 10 years.
Past that point you have to put money into the bike.
No problem if you are a skilled mechanic but expensiv if not.
For RTW I'd advise to buy as new and few KM as you can affort.
Repairs on the way are not only expensive but most important not easy since "our" bikes are not common, not ridden by the average population, mostly by "the rich".
So, I'd calculate the length and time of your RTW and add this to the bike you'd like to buy.
Since I only had japanese bikes and remember every bad story of a non japanese bike I hear, I'd take only a japanese bike.
have fun
sushi
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31 Mar 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremens
Dude, and you really think that RTW trip tests the bike reliability the most and makes you more important ???
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Please, tune your tone, it's Horizons Unlimited.
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1 Apr 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
But thanks for the advise, I will definetively investigate about the top and valve job...
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I think you need to be very specific with the mechanic if you take it in. It is a straightforward job but I think the head has to be heated; you will need someone who can measure the valves and ensure they are in tolerance or replace them and of course seals must be done at the same time.
Be sure the oil is being burned, not leaked.
Finally, while it is apart, it would be worth pulling the cylinder to make sure there are no silly mistakes - a common one is not gapping the piston rings properly or fitting the oil scraper ring upside down.
Does it need a cam-chain while you are in there?
Good luck with it man - let us know how you get on.
Kind regards,
Sean
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1 Apr 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docsherlock
I think you need to be very specific with the mechanic if you take it in. It is a straightforward job but I think the head has to be heated; you will need someone who can measure the valves and ensure they are in tolerance or replace them and of course seals must be done at the same time.
Be sure the oil is being burned, not leaked.
Finally, while it is apart, it would be worth pulling the cylinder to make sure there are no silly mistakes - a common one is not gapping the piston rings properly or fitting the oil scraper ring upside down.
Does it need a cam-chain while you are in there?
Good luck with it man - let us know how you get on.
Kind regards,
Sean
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Thanks for advices and help, much appriciated. 
There are no visible oil leaks so I do think oil is burned. When I throttle up the bike while parked to 4-5 000 rpm I can see that exhaust is black. Btw - exactly as it was before.
The piston rings - well I was present when the old cylinder was pulled off and then the mech showed me that the two uppermost rings had the opening on the same place. Thus I do think he put new new rings on the correct way including the oil scraper ring. Although 100 % sure I cannot be.
It did get a new camchain on the first rebuild, some 15-16 k kms ago. I wouldnt think thats needed now.
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1 Apr 2018
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I agree, won't need a new cam chain.
Worth considering other causes for high fuel consumption and black exhausts - is the mixture too rich? Last air filter change?
For the oil burning, I would ask the previous mechanics if they did the valve guides and seals before tearing into it.
The piston rings should not have the gaps aligned, rather be opposite sides of the piston....
Touring Ted on this forum is an experienced and very knowledgeable bike mechanic - it would be worth soliciting his thoughts as well before take down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
Thanks for advices and help, much appriciated.
There are no visible oil leaks so I do think oil is burned. When I throttle up the bike while parked to 4-5 000 rpm I can see that exhaust is black. Btw - exactly as it was before.
The piston rings - well I was present when the old cylinder was pulled off and then the mech showed me that the two uppermost rings had the opening on the same place. Thus I do think he put new new rings on the correct way including the oil scraper ring. Although 100 % sure I cannot be.
It did get a new camchain on the first rebuild, some 15-16 k kms ago. I wouldnt think thats needed now. |
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2 Apr 2018
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Black exhaust smoke presumably
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
There are no visible oil leaks so I do think oil is burned. When I throttle up the bike while parked to 4-5 000 rpm I can see that exhaust is black.
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When I was a young man, black smoke was an indicator of burning too much fuel.
Burning oil results in blue exhaust smoke.
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Dave
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2 Apr 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
When I was a young man, black smoke was an indicator of burning too much fuel.
Burning oil results in blue exhaust smoke.
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I have had the exhaust measured and according to the results it was very near «perfect» aka 100 %. What more can I do....?
Kev mod is turned to zero and have been so for a long time. Is there any other way to adjust air/mixture without altering ECU etc?
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2 Apr 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
I have had the exhaust measured and according to the results it was very near «perfect» aka 100 %. What more can I do....?
Kev mod is turned to zero and have been so for a long time. Is there any other way to adjust air/mixture without altering ECU etc?
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Suggest get rid of the Kev mod and return bike to stock. Renew air filter. Check diagnostic codes (plug in is behind the dash for power and under seat for diagnostic tool input). Diagnostic tool is about 100 euros from OTR or Yamaha dealer.
But honestly, 55 mpg from a loaded and modded bike is not bad....
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